Talking to BiL about his parenting won't make any difference.

[InterventionBlues]

Bil and the mother of his two children split years ago.
He has met and recently married a woman with two older children.
We think his children are neglected or ignored by him.
Is there any way you could ever have any conversation that would change life for the kids for the better. Or should we ignore, keep out?

And if you were a fucked up teen did another relative stepping in ever help in the long run?

If you feel the children are being neglected then you have a responsibility to do something. You can contact the NSPCC or social services.

What do you mean by neglect? As in he is acting like a typical deadbeat or is he not feeding/bathing/clothing his children when they are with him?

By neglect I mean both kids smell, even at a big family smart event - clothes, stale sweat & hair. It would normally be flagged if at Primary in a building a pattern, kind of safe guarding.

He sees them every other weekend, pays I understand a generous amount but absolutely wouldn't want the hassle of anymore time. His parents are lovely, he's grown up with decent role models.

Really, we are outsiders so don't necessarily know the full story.

Talk to the children and take an interest in them ? You probably can't do anything about their living situation but you can show them you care

Can you clarify a bit?
-does he see his children from his first relationship? Or is this where the ignoring / neglecting is happening; he just doesn't bother?
-are the children from his first relationship living with him but he's not caring for them to the point of being neglectful?
-are the children at risk from actual harm by neglect?

• are the children well cared for by their mother?

I had a similar situation years and years ago with my sister.

We did not get on, so I didn’t get involved. But I regret that now and feel it was my duty to have helped my niece and nephew. Despite everything they are two very lovely adults, but that doesn’t let me off the hook.

I’m assuming you don’t have any experience of parenting teenagers @InterventionBlues? Many of them, particularly boys, have a phase of allergy to soap and water, I know mine did and I got sick and tired of nagging about showers and teeth cleaning. That phase departed as suddenly as it arrived but it was bloody hard work while it lasted. Perhaps your BiL doesn’t want to spend his limited time with his kids nagging them. It’s none of your business anyway.

That level of filth doesn’t happen EOW.
Ring social services.

You should call social services as it sounds as if they are being neglected by both parents.

If he only has them eow and pays a substantial amount of money towards their upkeep it sounds more like maternal neglect.
Although you seem to hint in yoir op that they are teenagers? Are they not able to take a shower or bath and put their own clothes in the washer.?

17 and 14 are not easy times and although they send most time with their mum, their dad, my Bil has responsibility for them.

I feel he has ducked the heavy lifting of parenting but interventions now - in time, attention and tough positive love could still make a positive difference.

The kids are old enough to take that on board. I'm embarrassed that the wishy washy Disney Dad I've seen over the last few years is failing these kids.

But are we as aunt & uncle overstepping by voicing this?

Are you seriously suggesting that they only stink every other weekend when he has them? You must see that that isn't possible.
Lots of teenage boys smell and avoid showering.

No I think they smell all the time. But I also think he can't just ignore it and should step up when he has a chance. And he needs to make that chance, not fill his responsible weekends by ignoring them whilst he gets on with chores.

I'm not sure what can be done with a 17 year old who you see every other weekend. You could only really suggest that they have a wash but if they don't there isn't a huge amount you can do in that time frame.

Teenagers do smell a bit sometimes - I'm not sure I'd call it neglect in this case.

Ring NSPCC and/or social services for your area, you can do it anonymously and it would not be overstepping. It might all be as simple as two teenage boys being scruffy and refusing to shower, it might be that their mother is struggling financially (e.g., can't run the washing machine or heat the bath water) and their father doesn't care enough to intervene, or it might be intentional neglect and abuse.

Either way, speak up. Your BIL won't know it was you and if there is something going on then those boys will get the help they need.

It sounds more like maternal neglect tbh. I'm not sure what you can do other than voice your concerns to social services. How else would you want to get involved? The uncle could talk to his brother of course and say why do the kids stink everytime we see them, what's going on, why are you such a waste of space but that isn't likely to get you anywhere longterm.

Definitely get involved op. Does your bil bother about their clothes / appearance? When they’re with him, he should be buying decent clothes.

I can't believe posters are suggesting ringing social services for smelly teenagers.

I honestly don't think social service are going to be interested in a stinky 17 year old unless there is evidence of actual abuse?

If you're genuinely concerned, why not speak to BIL, say you've all noticed that the kids are a bit whiffy, is everything alright at home?

If that gets you nowhere, surely you could raise it with the kids themselves, check they've got access to a bath/shower/hot water, buy them some deodorant, make sure they're ok.

Anecdotally. clothes often smell when they're dried indoors in a kitchen as they absorb all the cooking and oil smells. Could that be why?

This is not a case for social services, there's middle class money, forest school, muchausen by proxy from the mother.

But I still feel the dad has a responsibility but I'm conflicted because how would any of us react to our parenting being questioned.

At the heart of this are two girls, one out of education, employment or training. The other homework refusing. Both drinking alcohol looking for attention. It's not a happy teen life and although eow isn't much, that is his choice, it could me more. Should the wider family be ignoring this and pretending it is all happy families.

This is one of those threads that will end up being deleted. Its so ridiculous

If you have safeguarding concerns then report them because safeguarding is everyone's business.

If there's not safeguarding concerns but you still want to be supportive then could you take an interest in the children, chat to BIL and ask how him and the children are and see if he needs any advice or support.

Munchausen from the boys' mother? And you're laying it all on BiL who has them every other weekend? And his new partner's apparently louche daughters?

In every 28 days they are spending 24 with their mum, I presume.

If you and your partner have any sort of relationship with the nephews, having them round/taking them out would be a possible first step. But not cross questioning about either parent - more a how's it going.

Crosstalk, the BIL's DC from his first relationship are the two daughters OP refers to in her most recent post. I think assumptions have been made about them being boys.

Do you mean he should be tackling their mother about her neglect? Because there isn't much he can do to make teenagers wash EOW. I'm wondering if your real issue is that you don't approve of him getting married to another woman and so you're using the children as an excuse to get at him. Because I can't see why the smelly teenagers are only an issue for you now.

So because it’s a middle class family, they don’t need SS? Bizarre. If there is MPB, it 100% is a case for SS and the police, whether the family is on the dole or the new subset of ultra wealthy.