To think that working people should get help too

[cantthinkofabetterusername]

I read today about another COL payment next year for people on benefits, pensioners etc. Now I completely agree that the most vulnerable in society need help and i don't begrudge them a penny. My AIBU is working people are struggling too! I work 30 hours a week, dp does 50 therefore we get no government help as we apparantley earn too much. In reality we're scraping by most months due to increasing bills and general cost of living, I'm aware I may come across as jealous, I'm not im just bloody frustrated that working people who don't get government help are seen by the government as not struggling

You'll get a hard time on mumsnet if you say things like this op, but I totally get the frustration.
I'm a single parent, two children, work full time, get zero maintenance from their father and often struggle to get to the end of the month. I get no government support as my wage is deemed above what is needed to require any government support.
I'm certainly not a high earner, I'm a community nurse.

But that's patently not true. Not everyone is struggling.

Why on earth should the tax payer help someone earning £100k?

A single UC claimant gets less than £350 per month. You try living on that.

There is such ignorance about benefit levels. Some people are literally starving. Its only right that help is targetted at those most in need.

My point was directed at the opening post which suggested that its an either or situation when clearly it isnt. Many people on benefits do indeed work.

Many do also work full time but their wages are just too low. Those that dont include carers and disabled people.

Amounts are so derisory that there's not a whole heap of people sitting around on their lazy arses as they simply couldnt afford to live.

My newly disabled friend got £350 per month. That was it. She lost her home and became suicidal despite paying into the system her entire working life.

Anyone that is jealous of those on benefits is just ignorant.

I suppose I'm classed as squeezed middle. As someone up thread said, for me it's cutting back on a few things. For many, many others it's heating their homes or having 3 meals a day for their family. My kids have clothes and food in their bellies. I'd much rather help is directed to those who need it the most. It's shit for everyone, and especially when public services are also on their knees. It's less shit for the squeezed middle, who also often benefit the most from a booming economy. Swings and roundabouts.

I do think much of the problem is that NMW is set so employers don't have to pay employees a wage they can truly live on - they can rely on people being topped up by UC. This not only shifts the burden to the state but also creates inequality, particularly where adult-only households don't qualify for wage 'top ups' and COL payments. If employers were mandated to pay decent levels of wages for all, this wouldn't happen - and it's not a case of employers being unable to afford it, they just choose to pay eye-watering amounts to their CEOs and so on rather than more equal wages throughout their hierarchies.

This is kind of nonsense that’s landed is in a low wage high welfare economy.

You don’t need to fleece the taxpayer to keep Tesco’s shelf stacked. You just need employers to pay the living wage. But why would they? When the taxpayer can subsidize them. And when wages become high enough then employers invest in automation. That increases productivity in the economy. Which makes everyone better off.

The lack of knowledge of simple economic principles on this thread is astounding.

All this working people and benefits squabbling is just what the rich need….

There are loads of people who work full time in low paid jobs 🙄my dh works for Tesco ,in a ware house full time on crap shifts too ,one week 7-3 the alternate week 3-11
Our son is severly disabled so i dont work we get tax credits

It is going up, I think to £10.40? Not everyone on minimum wage gets benefits though -I don't

Yours is exactly the type of situation I was referring to. Some simple, obvious changes from Government would make things much fairer and improve situations like yours:

*Enforce CMS in the same way that benefits fraud or Council Tax evasion would be treated i.e. proper investigation of incomes, large penalties or prison time for non-payment.

• Fund universal childcare properly like in pretty much every other European country.
• Equalise the tax system for single people so that single adult households aren't tax more on the same household income (again, like many European countries).

The majority if poverty is in single adult households. The majority of child poverty is in single adult households. We want to improve productivity? Then these steps above benefit everyone.

Yet not even a mention of them in the statement. Why? Because 95% of single parents are women.

It astonishes me that people here aren't outraged about things like how the tax system is set up to penalise single people deliberately, when this impacts women hugely disproportionately.

It is just what the Tories need too. 12 years of austerity and corruption, but the plebs are all blaming each other and squabbling over scraps.

It's not the done thing to say it on Mumsnet but a lot of people do choose to work less than full time, or they remain purposely underemployed (eg working as a LSA when they're actually a qualified teacher.) And of course all these people will have their reasons - they may feel they need to work part time or in an easier less stressful job for their mental health- but the fact remains that a lot of people who work to capacity- ie, full time in the more demanding/ difficult/ stressful jobs, are rightly pissed off - what about^^ their mental well being?

Unfortunately we've allowed society to develop in such a way that people can game the system, pick and choose what job they feel they want to do, what hours they feel they'd like to work, on the basis that the state (ie other people working longer/harder) will top them up. Not everyone of course, but too many people think like that.

Of course, this being Mumsnet people will start shrieking against what I've just written!

I just wish we had a universal wage system so that everyone was paid a basic income, enough to survive, and then people would be truly incentivised to earn as much as they could on top of that without being penalised by losing benefits. There are simply too many disincentives in the current system to working to capacity

This line is constantly trotted out on here, but is there any evidence that these people are working full time? I expect that most aren't, but simply prefer to top up their wages with benefits

If you think working people are better off working less hours and claiming benefits then you are mistaken. On UC you are always better off if you earn more.

I'm so sick of these threads. I'm a single working parent. I went part time when my ds1 was 1 and I was still with my husband. Work can't / won't increase my hours now so I am looking for another job. My monthly wage only just covers my mortgage and bills so without UC i wouldn't be able to afford anything else. As it is, my mum often buys clothes for my children.

I would prefer to work more hours because 1) I would be better off and 2) when my children are older I won't be entitled anyway so I'd like to stop being reliant on benefits as soon as I can.

Even if I worked full time I'd still receive a smaller amount of UC btw.

Governments always do this. During the recession in the 70s, I was a young working mum and ex and I struggled. No government help at all, as I was working.

Same in the 80s/90s - another recession, no help at all.

Both times, instead of the people blaming the government, all the different groups turned on each other.

Everyone thought someone else was doing better.

Tories love this citizen divisiveness, and meanwhile, the uber-wealthy get richer.🙄

The bitterness on this thread is quite sad and depressing. Begrudging the most vulnerable in our society some help proves how nasty some people can be. I’m glad some are getting help to heat their homes and buy food or would you rather the alternative? People on low wages and benefits have been living with the struggle for years. It’s only because the middle incomes are now having some of that struggle we are actually bothered about it.

I don't see any bitterness towards people who are working to capacity but on low wages. Wages are shit in the U.K. The NMW should be way higher; it's a disgrace that anyone in work should need topping up with benefits.

Many of the points on here are about the shit system which acts as a DISincentive to people to work to capacity.

Bitterness towards the govt, yes. Towards the system, absolutely.

The fucking irony that in the worst cost of living crisis since the 1950s, businesses are shutting down not just because of overheads but because they simply cannot recruit enough staff. In the town I live in, the hospital has a severe shortage of staff at pretty much every level. Teachers are leaving the schools in droves. People are walking away from full time professional roles because however shit the energy bills and food prices are, there isn't enough of an incentive to do these vital jobs which society needs. And those are the better paid roles - don't even get me started on the care industry where there's a devastating shortage of workers. These are all essential roles! People have run out of goodwill, of sticking in a role because it's a vocation and they know how much society needs them. Sod that. People need to be paid properly and incentivised to do a normal working week.

Just to say that I personally do not begrudge the rise in benefits, my view is benefits in the UK are too low. I do not begrudge the pension rise, pensions in the UK are low in comparison to other European countries.

I do have question marks about an additional £300 fuel payment to ALL pensioners irrespective of their general income.

Neither do I begrudge the rise in benefits and pensions. The issue many people have is that wages are so shit that they need topping up and that there is nowhere near enough incentive for people to work to capacity.

Everyone should have a roof over their head, warmth and food on the table- that's the basics! Following on from that, the basic principle should be that the more hours you work, and the more demanding the role (in terms of skills, level of responsibility etc) then the more you should earn. You have to ask yourself why people who have trained for years and worked hard to get into positions of responsibility - in health, education, whatever - are voting with their feet and walking away.

At the end of the day, no one's saying it's a great life style to have no job and be struggling to make ends meet- but it can be a damn sight worse to be working your arse off all week and struggling to make ends meet.

I've been a struggling single parent years ago and it was very hard indeed. My parents helped me a huge amount financially. I was so thrilled to get a job and start earning. I am now part of a couple, and we're both retired. We agree that we shouldn't necessarily get the £300 cost of living payment - there are better uses of that money. But we always have helped out our adult kids - ok particularly with childcare - but also house deposit, various cash payments when they've been struggling. Surely lots of those pensioners with their extra payments will be helping the next generation down from them?

It's lovely that you do that, but you only need to read the threads on here about how any child who expects their parents to spend any time with their children is "entitled", to realise that many are not like you at all. I'm not talking about regular childcare like you are doing, just actually taking a basic interest in their grandchildren, having them to stay for an occassional night or taking them on a day out. My parents have never done this, even once.

@BlackberriesArePurple I'm sorry that you don't get the support you deserve. It must be very upsetting for you that your parents don't take any interest in your children. I hope they have other adults in their lives to fill that gap - and I'm sure you're a great parent. Must make you feel bitter though - very understandable in my opinion.

It is really sad, especially because they have no contact with their father. I want them to have this wider idea if family but my family just do not think the way that I do. Ultimately it is their relationships with that children that they are missing out on. I just find it baffling. I can't imagine behaving like that if I am fortunate enough to be a grandma one day.

Fortunately we have lots of lovely friends so my children do have other trusted adults in their life, it feels very unhealthy for them to feel solely reliant on me and makes them feel quite insecure.

Your children are very lucky to have such a caring and involved parent.