Parental income

[glassdarker]

So, context, just seen 10% pension increase.

At same time I've been talking about doing something jointly with my mum and dad. So as a result we talked about income. My parents worked in manual/ administrative roles, neither went to Uni, but worked hard all their lives. Retired ten years ago, own house and car. I appreciate that many pensioners won't be in that position.

They both have small final salary schemes (one less than 10k, one less than 20k). They both get full state pensions. After normal bills their disposable income is a 2k a month. 2k a month ! I am blown away !

But bloody hell we are both higher rate tax payers and we are counting every penny (though we have a lot of extra spend due to a disabled DC). But AIBU to be a bit shocked by the difference in how we are experiencing the cost of living crisis ? I am glad they are doing OK and we don't need money from them but I am still a bit jaw dropped by this... and fantasy spending even 1/4 of that monthly disposable income !

Good for your parents. They obviously worked hard and made some good financial choices when it came to pensions - and they probably paid a lot into them when they were working. They'll be taxed on that and they'll pay tax on that 10% increase - which still brings the state pension under £ 10k a year.

@Blossomtoes I don't think it's the same now though. The triple lock was only introduced in 2010 and inflation hasn't been this high in 40 years. So while pensioners now are getting their income increased along with rising prices workers are not. Also final salary pension schemes were probably still open to your generation. They're not any more.
And it is the truth that as a GROUP pensioners are the most well off but also are given the most financial help without any means testing.
So it's hard not to think somethings gone wrong.

One fact you seem.to have neglected is these people will have probably started work as soon as they left school, paid tax and national insurance all their lives, saved hard for a deposit on a house, brought up children etc etc
They didn't suddenly jump.out of a big cake shouting surprise!! Look at my comfortable pension!!

From a sociable perspective with so many services cut (especially for disabled children) it does seem that there is an area of society that could be squeezed more without really feeling the pain

Could you clarify in what way this 'area of society' (by which I assume you mean pensioners) can be squeezed more? (unpleasant phrase, BTW). And what's 'not feeling the pain'?

Also by the time I'm old enough to claim my state pension I'll have been working full time for 50 years! Bloody hell. I honestly never considered that till just now. But I started work (full time obviously did weekends before) at 17 and can't get OAP till I'm 67. 😯

Do you know how much £ per year in 10% increase actually is?

Is that not missing the point though @Sugarplumfairy65? If its 10% across millions it adds up to a lot. And if a lot of them don't need it then there's plenty of others who do.

£962 or thereabouts. Takes the SP to just over £ 10k if my calculation on the back of the shopping list is correct. And taxed if you have a private pension that takes you over £ 12,570 tax allowance; which has been frozen for 6 years.

Define 'need.' I see this word bandied around a lot when it comes to pensioners.

Who gets to define "need" ?

One could also point to all the "struggling young families" and say they don't need to have children, so their struggles are their own doing. Or smartphones or whatever. I guarantee you that the lifestyles of today's young families are orders of magnitude more luxurious than today's pensioners had when they were young.

I did say on another thread that if you allocate pensions according to need then essentially you are dismantling the welfare state - because if it's decided that some pensioners don't fulfil an arbitrary level 'of 'need' then nothing stops this being extended. Earn over a certain amount? you can afford private schools and healthcare, you don't need the NHS and the education system so we're not letting you use them.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that we shouldn't be paying OAP to.everyone. just that maybe the triple lock.isnt right since workers are paying for that but not benefitting from similar increases. And wealth should be considered. Not just income

DH and I are retired but not yet getting state pension, just private pensions. Our expenses are relatively low as our mortgage is paid off and our DC’s are left home.
However most of our excess income goes to our DC’s, so we have bought them cars given large deposits towards houses, paid for furniture etc. This is certainly the norm in our social group so the extra money is shared around.
You need to moan a bit more about how hard you are finding things, that’s what my children do.

And wealth should be considered

Such as?

Also while i obviously think NHS and schools should be available to everyone there's s fair chance that's the way things are going to an extent. At least the NHS

Such as money in a bank account, shares, property. You know. Wealth.

@Fairyliz that made me laugh 😃

You will no doubt inherit a big chunk of your parent's assets so try being grateful that they worked so hard and managed to buy a house and save for good pensions. You will be one of the privileged whose parents can pass on property, many of your contemporaries will be renters all their lives, so please be more appreciative of what your parents have achieved for their family.

Wealth can be all sorts of things, readily accessible and not so accessible. But then of course that's an arbitrary measure again - what's wealth to one person is not wealth to another. My wealth at the moment is money in the bank to pay for a lease extension and flat repairs, and a flat in the SE. That, I hope, is going to be sold and buy somewhere that leaves me a pot over to pay for any care. Your suggestion would take that away and throw me back on the state for care if I need it; so the state takes with one hand and gives with another. And probably costs more to administer than is worth it.

i am pretty sure your parents weren’t always in this comfortable situation! It is highly likely that they had a mortgage when interest rates were double figures .
DH and I are retired , mortgage cleared , savings , 2 Occupational Pensions and 2 State Pensions plus 1 Attendance Allowance so we are comfortable BUT it wasn’t like this when we were younger with DC ! We often struggled just making it to the end of the month .
I hate these old v young threads .

Well they have decent private pensions so its not overly surprising. It wasn't compulsory or something many jobs on the whole offered (pension contributions scheme) when many pensioners were in work, at most would have just covered the last portion since its been the law to. So many will be on state pensions. I agree that it was easier for many to buy homes but not for all. My parents have always worked hard but in low paid jobs as they left school young to support their families; they have always paid rent in social housing but couldn't afford to buy even with the help to buy etc. Since my dad died my mum has to pay rent still, and live off of one state pension- she is £1 over the limit for pension credit. Its tough and its just fortunate I am in a position to support her financially. I am really happy pensions, something people have paid their stamps towards, are rising in line with inflation.

Oh and we have helped our DC a lot and now pay for DGC’s activities and give them pocket money plus take them on holiday .

I'm delighted that my own mother is comfortable in her retirement - she worked her arse off for 50 years. I hope she spunks the lot on having a bloody good time, she deserves it.

Sigh. More nudge theory.

No, wealth should not be considered for the pension payouts.

Imagine if we considered the liabilities that people created, as well as assets? "Oh, you had five children and cost the NHS and the schools and social services far more than people with three children, so you will receive a 40 percent reduction in your pension payout to make up for being an extra burden on society."

Would that be "fair"? How about childfree getting a big boost in payout because they haven't cost society as much as parents have, all these years?

Once we start evaluating people's lifetime personal choices, it's all up for grabs.

But wealth is considered for most benefits. Why shouldn't pensions be one? And I'm not suggesting not paying them at all but maybe the triple lock only for those on pensions credit or something. Everyone else's state pension can rise at the same rate as average earnings.
And children cost money but they're also tax payers of the future!