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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Where is the line between care and education (Reception Year)

36 replies

crazymomma93 · 14/11/2022 15:44

Hiya so bit of a back story incase anyone can help with the problem itself. DS at 18months old showed keen intrest in the potty, I was reluctant to take him out of nappies but did age 20months. He was completely dry of a day but not night. Lockdown happened he found it hilarious to wee everywhere for attention as his older sibling was off school. He has never been 100% dry since!
DS turned 4 in June started school in September, I made them aware and signed the forms that he could be helped during an accident.

Today I have picked him up from school and he is sodden! I've not known him be this wet for a long time! The bottom half of his vest, tshirt and jumper, as well as the front and back of his pants and trousers. As soon as we got home I noticed, told him to go straight to the loo. He has a little urinal thing on the wall, that I have to empty into the toilet and it is FULL! So its obvious to me his urine accident wasn't really that recent, as he won't have been able to produce that much in the urinal if it had been

AIBU to take it up with the school? Or is it not their responsibility? I feel so upset for him, that he has been sat in urine for god knows how long, he is a very young 4. Sorry its a long post. I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
MuggleMe · 14/11/2022 16:08

Take it up with the school for sure. They should be helping to change if he can't manage himself. A huge part of reception is teaching and encouraging self care, but noticing and helping where still required.

PortalooSunset · 14/11/2022 16:15

Is he able to tell the teacher if it happens? If it doesn't smell offensive then possible teacher didn't notice?

Katapolts · 14/11/2022 16:17

Reception classes are busy places.

I would mention to the teacher that he came home wet. Maybe ask her if she could remind him to go to the toilet extra times during the day.

If he isn't fully toilet trained, see if there's a family support worker at school or ask about the school nurse service to see if they can offer some help or advice.

And talk to your son about asking to go to the toilet, and that he must tell an adult if he has an accident.

AntlerRose · 14/11/2022 16:18

If you drop your child at school the easiest thing would be to speak to the teacher and just say 'ds came home drenched in urine yesterday, can you keep a closer eye on him and make sure he is comfortable with how to get to the toilet

x2boys · 14/11/2022 16:18

School have a duty of care towards children ,if they are blatantly leaving a child wet and or soiled then according to ERIC guidelines it can be considered neglect .

Kite22 · 14/11/2022 16:21

What @Katapolts said.
You didn't notice until you got home, and you only had him to look after. Surely you can see that it is feasible the teacher wasn't aware either?

funtycucker · 14/11/2022 16:23

x2boys · 14/11/2022 16:18

School have a duty of care towards children ,if they are blatantly leaving a child wet and or soiled then according to ERIC guidelines it can be considered neglect .

They may not have known he was wet if it happened towards the end of the day when they children were getting ready to leave for the day of if it didn't smell or happen in sight of a member of staff. In a reception class where it is expected that children are toilet trained a teacher shouldn't have to and doesn't have the time to go around checking if each child's clothes are dry or not

zingally · 14/11/2022 16:27

If you didn't notice it until you were home, how'd you expect a reception teacher in a class of 30 to notice?

Are you completely sure it was wee? Could he have been playing in the water tray? And if the wee accident happened a while go, how was he still sodden? He'd have dried off a good chunk in a warm classroom surely?

This urinal thing in your house...? What's that? Sounds gross. But also reception toilets never have urinals, so maybe encourage him to go in the normal toilet at home, to better mirror what he has at school.

Katapolts · 14/11/2022 16:29

Why would anyone assume the teacher deliberately left a child in wet clothes Confused That doesn't make any sense, why would they want a child getting urine on everything?

If the teacher had known, they'd have got him changed.

melj1213 · 14/11/2022 16:42

You didn't notice until you got home so in a classroom full of 30 kids it's not unreasonable for them not to notice either, especially if he didn't tell them - the teacher isn't going to go around inspecting every single child's trousers/skirt at regular intervals on the off chance someone has had an accident and said nothing.

Also are you 100% sure it was urine and not that he's been playing in a water tray etc as it would be unusual for a child to be sodden to that extent just from an accident and it not start drying out (unless it happened right before they left). If it was an accident then I would try to find out from your DS when it happened and if he told a teacher (if he didn't then you need to remind him to do so) so you can follow up with the school to ask them to remind DS to go to the toilet "Hi school, DS came home wet yesterday and said he had an accident in the afternoon, but was too shy to tell the teacher and they didn't notice. Can you please try to remind him after lunch about going to the loo and keep an eye on him in the afternoons in case it happens again? Many thanks for your help"

BusyMum47 · 14/11/2022 16:47

melj1213 · 14/11/2022 16:42

You didn't notice until you got home so in a classroom full of 30 kids it's not unreasonable for them not to notice either, especially if he didn't tell them - the teacher isn't going to go around inspecting every single child's trousers/skirt at regular intervals on the off chance someone has had an accident and said nothing.

Also are you 100% sure it was urine and not that he's been playing in a water tray etc as it would be unusual for a child to be sodden to that extent just from an accident and it not start drying out (unless it happened right before they left). If it was an accident then I would try to find out from your DS when it happened and if he told a teacher (if he didn't then you need to remind him to do so) so you can follow up with the school to ask them to remind DS to go to the toilet "Hi school, DS came home wet yesterday and said he had an accident in the afternoon, but was too shy to tell the teacher and they didn't notice. Can you please try to remind him after lunch about going to the loo and keep an eye on him in the afternoons in case it happens again? Many thanks for your help"

This! ⬆️
Double check it was wee then have a gentle word with the school but also reiterate to your son that he needs to start using the toilet properly now & must tell someone if he's wet - even if it's water from playing & not actually wee!

Floatyflip · 14/11/2022 17:08

It took you a little while to notice, think how long it would have taken you if you’re also looking after multiple other children?

You need to address this with your son that he needs to notify a teacher if he has an accident

Original poster
crazymomma93 · 14/11/2022 17:13

It is 100% urine, It stinks to high heaven! We live a 3 minute walk from the school, he runs off with his friends (in my sight at all times), as soon as we got through the front door, I could smell it. The problem is I asked him and he denied it, only when I touched his clothes and told him 'Dude you are wet' he replies ' I didn't know'. When he was in the bath I asked him how long he has been wet, he said lunchtime 🙈 I asked why he didnt get changed (he is more than capable) his reply was 'no one asked me to so I didnt need to" 😬
I am at a complete loss as to what to do with him, my AIBU was whether to bring it up with the school, they have enough with 28 R kids running about. I don't want to be "that mum" but nor do I want DS urine soaked. I bet the classroom smells awful!

OP posts:
MelchiorsMistress · 14/11/2022 17:14

I’d mention to the teacher that he came home wet and ask if he’s usually ok going to the toilet, but it’s really common for children to have accidents in reception even after being dry for years. They get easily distracted or don’t want to leave a toy for someone else to take if they go to the toilet.

You need to toilet train your child properly though, school can’t be expected to potty train for you. They should be expected to help with occasional accidents, but no more than that.

Make sure your child is able to tell a teacher if he needs help, but he should be capable of changing his own clothes and putting wet ones in a bag with nothing but supervision from the school staff. Practice at home if you need to.

Justthisonce12 · 14/11/2022 17:17

Well surely there must be a puddle on the floor somewhere it’s not like all his clothes would’ve absorbed it.

Cuck00soup · 14/11/2022 17:19

Your child probably knows that his other classmates are mostly dry and now that he has that awareness it's a good time to revisit his toileting.

Original poster
crazymomma93 · 14/11/2022 17:20

He is more than capable of changing his own clothes, he has done that since age 3. He is more than capable of wiping his own bum. On numerous times he goes to the toilet for a wee or a poo. But also on numerous occasions he will do it in his pants and act as if nothing has happened. Im aware how to potty train, I'm aware how to raise a child (DD9 was dry at 2 1/2). As I said my AIBU was whether to mention it to the school. How do I handle it with the school when I can not work my own son out 🙈 Theres nothing I can suggest to them that I know will even help him. One day no accidents at all uses toilet well, another day 1 accident but sorts it completely himself (HATEs dirty pants that day) yet another day happy to deny he has both wet an messed his pants, happy to sit in it 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
Notjusta · 14/11/2022 17:23

YANBU at all to mention it to school tomorrow morning when you drop him off and remind them that he needs addition support/reminders to go for a wee etc.

PatchworkElmer · 14/11/2022 17:30

I would definitely speak to them but I would also remind him that he needs to tell an adult if he has an accident. They can’t be expected to monitor 30 kids for accidents constantly. Maybe remind him of a change of clothes in his bag/ work out how he can discreetly ask to change?

Mapletreelane · 14/11/2022 17:45

Definitely speak to school and explain, as there may be a way they can support him

But also take him to GP. They will look into if there are any physiological reasons he is not dry, but will also refer you to the school nursing team, and they'll be able to provide you with support to help him.

School may actually be able to get you referred to school nursing team too, I'm not sure of the exact referral process, but if you speak to school and GP you will find out what support he can get.

WonderingWanda · 14/11/2022 17:45

I can see how a teacher in a room of 30 children would miss this. I think you need to get hold of the school nursing team. My ds had years of bladder issues relating to an overactive bladder. How is he at night? The Eric website has a lot of useful info. If he can be reliably dry some days then I don't think it's a potty training issue but he is having accidents for some reason and may well have been aware of it but embarrassed to say anything. For my ds, having a full bladder and laughing led to accidents as did being constipated. The school nursing team and bladder and bowel clinic had all sorts of advice for us and in fact he continues to take medication still.

SnotRag22 · 14/11/2022 18:00

crazymomma93 · 14/11/2022 17:13

It is 100% urine, It stinks to high heaven! We live a 3 minute walk from the school, he runs off with his friends (in my sight at all times), as soon as we got through the front door, I could smell it. The problem is I asked him and he denied it, only when I touched his clothes and told him 'Dude you are wet' he replies ' I didn't know'. When he was in the bath I asked him how long he has been wet, he said lunchtime 🙈 I asked why he didnt get changed (he is more than capable) his reply was 'no one asked me to so I didnt need to" 😬
I am at a complete loss as to what to do with him, my AIBU was whether to bring it up with the school, they have enough with 28 R kids running about. I don't want to be "that mum" but nor do I want DS urine soaked. I bet the classroom smells awful!

Definitely mention it. Just tell his teacher at drop off/via email that he came home soggy, she'll then remind him/send him to the toilet at intervals.

My DS was (is) funny about wearing school spares so always had a couple of pairs of his own underpants at school and a pair of trousers in a bag on his peg. He's yr 1 now and still on occasion comes home damp and stinking.

Reception classrooms aren't the freshest of places on the nose and the teacher is moving round and in charge of 29 others who are also in perpetual motion. She probably wouldn't have noticed unless he told her he was wet.

Original poster
crazymomma93 · 14/11/2022 18:19

WonderingWanda · 14/11/2022 17:45

I can see how a teacher in a room of 30 children would miss this. I think you need to get hold of the school nursing team. My ds had years of bladder issues relating to an overactive bladder. How is he at night? The Eric website has a lot of useful info. If he can be reliably dry some days then I don't think it's a potty training issue but he is having accidents for some reason and may well have been aware of it but embarrassed to say anything. For my ds, having a full bladder and laughing led to accidents as did being constipated. The school nursing team and bladder and bowel clinic had all sorts of advice for us and in fact he continues to take medication still.

He has never in his life had a dry night. Many many times, even recently its a shower in the morning and strip the bed job. He suffers terrible with constipation,is there a connection between the 2? When I seen a GP about the constipation they just palmed him off with Laxido. He has suffered constipation since birth.

OP posts:
Katapolts · 14/11/2022 18:26

Constipation causes wee accidents and soiling.

I think you need to ask for a meeting with the school and come up with a formal care plan.

senior30 · 14/11/2022 18:26

Hi, it sounds like eric.org.uk would be really helpful for you. There are some really good resources on there for constipation and bladder problems, I would also advise seeing your GP sand they can try to get him seen by the children’s community nursing team. It doesn’t sound like straightforward bed wetting so hopefully you'll find some support. The urinal also doesn’t sound like the best idea, if he’s using that at home and it’s not available at school then it’s only natural he will have days where he doesn’t like to use the toilet at school.