Where is the line between care and education (Reception Year)

[crazymomma93]

Hiya so bit of a back story incase anyone can help with the problem itself. DS at 18months old showed keen intrest in the potty, I was reluctant to take him out of nappies but did age 20months. He was completely dry of a day but not night. Lockdown happened he found it hilarious to wee everywhere for attention as his older sibling was off school. He has never been 100% dry since!
DS turned 4 in June started school in September, I made them aware and signed the forms that he could be helped during an accident.

Today I have picked him up from school and he is sodden! I've not known him be this wet for a long time! The bottom half of his vest, tshirt and jumper, as well as the front and back of his pants and trousers. As soon as we got home I noticed, told him to go straight to the loo. He has a little urinal thing on the wall, that I have to empty into the toilet and it is FULL! So its obvious to me his urine accident wasn't really that recent, as he won't have been able to produce that much in the urinal if it had been

AIBU to take it up with the school? Or is it not their responsibility? I feel so upset for him, that he has been sat in urine for god knows how long, he is a very young 4. Sorry its a long post. I don't know what to do.

@crazymomma93 yes there can be a link between wetting and constipation. There is also a problem that some children don't produce any or sufficient vasopressin which is the hormone reducing urine output at night, some don't until they go through puberty. Then there's also twitchy bladders. We've been through all the measuring input and output, using bedwetting alarms, taking various medications. It took years to find a combination which worked and now on the cusp of puberty things are improving. Push either the gp or the school nursing team for a referral to the bladder and bowel clinic to get some more support. The school nursing team can then talk to school and explain that it's not just an issue of 'not potty trained' but an actual medical issue. Good luck!

Unfortunately schools just aren't staffed for caring. 1 teacher and 1 TA for a group of 30 4yr olds they just don't have time to pay attention to them all at once.

Children are expected to be able to toilet (including poos), get changed for PE, make food choices and carry their food from serving place to a table, eat with a knife and fork, clear away (put plates/ rubbish in appropriate places) after. But also know when to ask for help when needed. My son's preschool did most of that! Any areas that he wasn't so good at they made me aware of and tried to help master it (e.g. my son took a long time to get the hang of knife & fork, scissors etc).

Did your son have issues at preschool?

It's not something you can expect the classroom staff to deal with so likely need to talk to SENCO or other support staff to see what advice they can give you to help him manage.

when I touched his clothes and told him 'Dude you are wet' he replies ' I didn't know'. When he was in the bath I asked him how long he has been wet, he said lunchtime

So he did know or didn’t?

I’d be working with him on the importance of him telling the truth here otherwise he’s going to end up sore. It’s really hard in a class of thirty to teach alongside managing medication, sorting disputes, organising interventions and changing the clothes of children who HAVE told you they’ve had an accident, let alone being aware of children who have had accidents but deny it! Sniffing out a smell in a classroom that is approx 75% farts is quite difficult as well!

Speak to the GP/HV if under 5 for a referral to the local continence team.

I think you need to ask for / refer him yourself to the school nursing team. He needs a plan to get dry. As for him being wet today, speak to the teacher and explain he was wet. Ask if they have any ideas how to encourage him to ask for help or whether they can have set times to check him to ensure he isn't wet. Perhaps these should also be set times to use the toilet too? I would suggest that at morning playtime, before and after lunch and at the end of the day would be a good call. Maybe he could have a chart that he puts a sticker on when he checks in with the TA or teacher?

My son came home wet a few times in reception. I asked the teacher if she'd remind him (which she was happy) and we worked on his confidence in asking for the toilet and telling the teachers if he had an accident. They're good at hiding it if they don't want anyone to know.

I have no idea whether he knows or doesn't no. Im pretty sure he does know, just worried he will get told off (something his Dad does do an we have had arguments a plenty over. He seems to think DS is lazy, I believe there is more to it) Thank you all so much for the advice and guidance. I have contacted GP and HV previously and brushed off (too young) but now I feel more confident in approaching them. Im 95% certain there is something underlying (mild Autism traits, Sleep apnea, constipation) but every time I have tried to reach out for help about any issues I seem to get brushed aside. But its gotten to a point, where toileting needs to be sorted. I know that wont be immediate, but a plan of some sort in place. Thank you all again!

This is our experience. DD has been reliably dry since 2 but came home from school wet when she first started. She is one of the youngest in the class and quite shy. The issue was that she was too shy to take herself off to the loo or tell a teacher. They are very good at hiding it if they are shy and a bit embarrassed. We told the teacher and worked with them on reassurance and building her confidence. There was no issue at all, we're not 'those parents', it happens all the time. Just go in for a chat but if you can coax it out of your DS what the problem it that will be half the problem solved.

My 4 yo son also started reception this year and still has the odd accident. Its usually because he's too busy playing etc and doesn't want to stop. Sometimes he doesn't realise he's had an accident.

The first day when I collected him he was soaked just like your lb. He said he was busy playing and also that the toilet was scary. I mentioned it the following day to his teacher and she was horrified they hadn't spotted it themselves and said they would show him it's not scary. Since then they've reminded him more and carried on with their routines for all kids to get them more independent. He's still had the odd accident at school but he's told someone or they've noticed and he gets changed into dry clothes.

At 4 it's a lot of adjustment and accidents will happen. Just have a quiet chat and I'm sure they will work with you to get him dry 😊

Accidents at school are common and normal.
I’m slightly surprised that no one noticed if he’d been wet for several hours but we don’t actually know when it happened.
You must speak to school, they need to be aware and can keep a closer eye on him. They will help him change.
BUT you must impress upon him that he must tell an adult if he needs to change.
Also make sure he has all the necessary spare clothes in school at all times.

My son went through this and is only just starting to improve (year 2).

For DS, it’s a case of distractibility and also not caring about having an accident. He won’t tell the teacher when he’s had an accident, either he doesn’t realise or he denies it. So if the teacher doesn’t notice, it goes unnoticed until I collect him. It’s been very tricky and there have been many times when I’ve picked him up wet or smelling, every day at the peak of it.

My advice would be to get on to the GP for a referral. Could be overactive bladder or any number of things. And the fact he’s been referred will maybe help school to take it more seriously / keep a closer eye on him. Tell school every time he has had an accident at school, so they can build up a picture of how regularly it’s happening. If you don’t tell them, they won’t have a good idea. Request that school make sure he is being reminded regularly to go to the toilet.

If he has suspected mild autism you may discover proprioception issues are at play. He may not realise his bladder is full until he is desperate. That also would explain why he was less clear how long he’s been wet for. We had thing - still do. You can encourage him to get into a routine of, for example, going to the toilet every break, and asking the teacher to remind him (she might not but you can try)