It's a proposal one...

[Hopefullynaive]

I'm feeling sorry for myself and need a bit more of a beating for being so naive so hello aibu!

Before I start, I'm not desperate to get engaged, we have 2 beautiful kids and I've been married and divorced so it's not so important that I'll be popping the question myself. I can happily live with the relationship whatever happens.

That being said, from the moment I met my partner I knew he was the one to make me reconsider my "never getting married again" post divorce mantra. And apparently he felt the same telling me he was going to marry me one day. Anyway skip a couple of babies and a pandemic and we've had more in depth conversations about marriage and agreed that it's something we'd both like (no, this does not make us engaged already). He spoke to my dad and asked permission, even went so far as to hint that he would be buying the ring this month (sale discounts = the way to my heart). Today however he's decided that actually he won't be buying it now, he'd rather pay more but have time to save more to get something better which i find a bit confusing but there we go. I've told him before I'd be happy with a £100 or less ring as its the symbol but he's not apparently.

So tell me the truth, he's not actually going to do it is he? This is a "shits got real" backing out a bit situation isn't it 😳

This is all so strangers you were disappointed your ex didn’t ask your dad? But was only joking this time?

Did your dp ask your dad for permission to get you pregnant? That’s a massive commitment. So why not ask then? If you didn’t need his permission then, why now?

and what happens if your dad said ‘no actually. I don’t give my permission or blessing.’ Would that change the outcome?

You have already tied yourself to this man, through your kids, forever. You will even be connected when then are adults. Just talk to him.

Maybe if he had I would have found out that they disliked they way he put me down and disrespected me and I'd have seen it for myself before wasting money and time on a dead end marriage. you could have asked them what they thought?

Or maybe, like many people do you would have just carried in and got married anyway and it could have caused further problems. If he had said no about your dp would you refuse to get engaged?

Often, when your adult kids are in bad relationships, speaking up pushes the couple closer together. The ‘it’s us against the world’ mentality makes people more determined. So maybe they wouldn’t have.

I am sure if they thought speaking up would stop you doing it, they would have anyway.

My DH and I went ring shopping together, I chose the one I wanted and he paid for it then put it away so he could do his proposal. Why not suggest that - it does sound to me like he’s changed his mind

Then they wouldn't have told you he was an arse unless you asked.

I'm another one who doesn't really understand proposals and why the man gets to decide when being engaged becomes an Actual Thing - but I am very much in my minority among my friends so I know this isn't a widespread opinion!

If it were me (in fact this is what happened when it was!) I'd just suggest going shopping for a ring together! Then you get what you want and you can show him that you don't need something big and flash and a big surprise proposal etc. (I bought my own ring, my friends were horrified 😂)

If he keeps making excuses then you have to consider maybe he doesn't want to marry you are all. But stop with the passive waiting to be allowed to be engaged to him and make it happen (or not)

Shall we get married? Yes.

Ok, let's book the church / registry office / venue.

Anything else involved in an "engagement" is a hang over from times when women were their father's property and then their husband's. The ring is essentially a dowry.

You are not living in the 1800's.
Just speak to him and go buy a ring if you want to wear one.

This is what it means to me. Well agreeing to set a date and plan rather than a general yes we will get married one day. We have had discussions about marriage for years but life has always gotten in the way of anything being actually done, so no, that is not an engagement.

For the housing worries etc, I would be in the exact same position I'm in now financially whether we were together or not. I made sure that that would always be the case after being left to fend for myself on a pathetic wage after turning my life upside to support my ex. Marriage would purely be for love.

And just to repeat one last time, asking permission was a joke. It was done before kids. It was an "oh by they way" not an awkward "please allow me your daughters hand". And to the pp who questioned why it was a joke now but disappointed me last time, well I'm older and wiser now. And divorced so clearly made good choices when I was younger!

You were disappointed that one man didn't ask another man if he could have you 🙄

Hmm your op suggests that he asked your dad after the kids, pandemic and more in-depth discussions. and quite recently.

Anyway skip a couple of babies and a pandemic and we've had more in depth conversations about marriage and agreed that it's something we'd both like (no, this does not make us engaged already). He spoke to my dad and asked permission, even went so far as to hint that he would be buying the ring this month (sale discounts = the way to my heart).

Now you are saying he informed your dad he was proposing years ago? But hasn’t done anything about it in those years? If I were your dad I would think he was a bullshitter.

Look, it seems like he has you hanging on a string and messing your about over this for years. Maybe it’s a Christmas surprise. Maybe he is just stringing you along.

Marriage should never be ‘just for love’. At it’s core it’s a legal and financial arrangement and you shouldn’t ignore that. I think you had a shit first marriage and really want the romantic dream to play out. I had a shit first marriage, so do get that you want the ‘and they lived happy ever after’. But I don’t think you will get it. I think trying to push him into proposing will leave you feeling you didn’t get it how you wanted it. A declaration that he undertook himself, under his own steam. Besides the marriage/relationship is more important.

I will say though, if he is stringing you along and has doesn’t want to do it but not telling you, then that makes him a massive shit. I don’t want to get married. Dp knows this. It would make me a massive cunt if I knew it was important to him and pretended I did too.

Good luck. I do genuinely hope you get what you want.

OP it sounds to me like he wants to do it all 'properly'.

You think the ring is just a symbol but he wants to buy the perfect ring. I think that's understandable.

Couldn't agree more.

Men don't wear engagement rings or wait/wonder/worry about whether their girlfriends will "propose".

Why should he have control over your life OP? You have agency over your own life. He doesn't get to decide your major life events for you. Tell him you want to book a venue for your wedding.

Adult women waiting and waiting for a "ring"... this patriarchal gubbins should be consigned to history.

✅

It does sound that way in the op I agree but I know he spoke before them and then the pandemic happened and the kids followed so he spoke again afterwards, after we'd had more conversations about it all.

If it doesn't happen by valentines day next year call the whole thing off. Christmas, new years and valentines are all perfect opportunity for the 'man who can't think of a way to propose'. So Feb 15th dump him, if he turns round then and proposes no sorry too late.

Oh OP, I kind if get where you're coming from (except except whole dad thing . Let's drop that now because it's kind of irrelevant to your issue and also kind of weird, but each to their own).
The thing I don't get in your last post is how you've financially protected yourself so you can "marry for love". Marriage is about partnership in both a legal and financial sense. Love can exist with or without marriage.
I do struggle to understand how you can live with someone, have children together but not have financial implications (I don't mean the day to day, "I support myself" stuff. I mean, what happens if one of you dies sort of stuff)
I love my DP very much. The factor pushing us to get married is the ability to be a legal unit, officially committed (not just ideologically in a "love" sense) so we can easily share finances and responsibilities without needing to always protect our individual interests. The love is unaffected and quite frankly has little to do with marriage.
Presumably in your talks, you jave expressed what you both think marriage means. Because if you have expressed the above understanding of marriage, and that you are willing to have a cheap ring as it's not about that to you, then yes...I would be annoyed if my DP were stalling and would be telling him so and that I would like to book a venue/date.

Have faith, nothing you wrote sounds to me like he is backing out. Maybe he is saving to get you the ring of your dreams, you will be wearing it for the rest of your life so many he doesnt want to get it cheap? It will come at the right time

If you've already decided you both want to get married just get on and do it, you don't "need" a proposal.

I can't believe you are advising a stranger to dump an otherwise perfectly normal nice man (and the father of her children) and split up her family if he doesn't propose.

You do know this is real life and not a soap opera don't you?

Instinct is telling you that something is amiss OP. Tell him that you’d like to set a marriage date for next year and that you are not particularly bothered about an engagement ring although you appreciate his thoughtfulness in wanting to buy a nice one.

His reaction should inform what you do next.

I'd have dumped him for asking my dads permission. Are you sure you're old enough to get married?

They already have children. How is that ‘properly’?

If you don't want to ask him because it would spoil the romance, why don't you just ask his parents for his hand?

Or the OP could blow her own mind completely and just ask her partner’s mum for her permission to marry her adult son? Or do you have to have testicles to hand one adult over to another (who also needs testicles)? Who knows, OP, maybe your partner is dying for you to ask his mother so she can somehow figure out whether you’re going to be a good wife to her DS?

Good shout