To think dentists have become unaffordable?

[Eurydice84]

I went for a teeth cleaning today, £98! The hygienist recommended I get it done very frequently, four times a year, and made me feel bad for not doing this already.

Who can afford dentists in these dire financial times?!

@londongals what do you mean the difference your mate does in private compared to NHS?

Same level of care should still be applied.

Are you taking the piss 🤔? £98 is a hell of a lot of money to many people. I couldn't afford that. Especially not to get my teeth cleaned. I'd rather spend it on, you know, food, heating.... If you think the OP is being cheap then you obviously have a very different perspective on the value of money.

The care is the same, but where I am describes NHS as "functional" whereas the private is "functional and cosmetic". In practice this means they fix things rather than prevent them and will do a filling instead of a root canal where possible.

For those who are asking about Denplan,
Simply Health are another alternative, we pay a monthly fee that covers a portion of dentists fees, also opticians and a few other things.

Can anyone on SImply Plan explain how it works with an employer?

I've just checked my dentists price list.

An examination is £56.50 and standard hygienist visit is £76.50. I go twice a year and have x-rays annually to check up on a couple of teeth that have the potential for needing filling. That x-ray is £16.50 x 2 sides. Total annual costs = £299.

I have a denplan policy that costs me £27 per month, so over the course of a year costs more than the above cost, but when I do need a filling they're covered.

Being told you should go 4 times a year is mental though. Better money spent on a decent sonic toothbrush and go twice. My hygienist rarely has to do much to my teeth (and I don't floss!).

It’s like a post code lottery what you can get

This is why I travel miles to go to my excellent childhood dentist.

Yep, it's horrifying. I have Unum dental as we've got no local NHS dentists and pay £400 per year for our family to have cover then they always seem to have some kind of reason the treatment isn't covered, even though I've checked in advance it will be. Frankly the whole shambles feels like a scam.

I saw the hygienist for the first time last year, I don’t know what I was expecting but it literally took her 15 mins and I was charged £64! I was not impressed. I had to have 3 fillings at £100 each in one appt. How do people have £300 spare to pay for these things. I suppose it’s my fault for not keeping my teeth clean.

Exactly this. I know a few dentists and they are comfortable but certainly not owning-multiple-Ferraris comfortable. I suspect only a handful are making 7 figures and that will be in the capacity of business owners of multiple surgeries rather than just bog standard dentists.

If one uses an electric toothbrush correctly, twice a day, along with tepee brushes for the interdental spaces, there should be no need for any visits to a hygienist. A scale and polish from one’s dentist, administered during regular check ups, is more than sufficient. I haven’t needed fillings or a hygienist in four decades.

How do other countries populace cope? Apparently the UK is one of very few countries worldwide that offers free or subsidised dental care. In those countries that don't, dental care is cheaper. If we got rid of NHS dental care, perhaps private providers would have to reduce their fees due to increased competition?

It's estimated that it would cost £880 million pounds annually to restore NHS dentistry to 2010 levels so ponder that when we remember how much the Tory party has pissed up the wall with Brexit, test and trace, dodgy PPE contracts and the like. (>£200 billion so far). Criminal.

I don't blame 'greedy' dentists. They are not - particularly the younger ones paying a king's ransom for 5 years at dental school and then buying into a practice, particularly in the South East. Prior to Brexit, we were fortunate enough to have many highly qualified dentists from all over Europe who decided to make the UK their home and practice here. This is no longer the case.

www.gdpuk.com/news/latest-news/4111-is-brexit-beginning-to-bite-uk-dentistry

Yup! I paid £230 for one replacement filling and £120 for a new one, £70 for X-rays and a check up, £80 for hygienist. And my teeth aren’t in bad nick.
my kids are £18 each for a check up and £50 for a fisher seal!!!

Totally agree OP.
And no I do not pay for nails etc and cut my own hair.
Seriously considering pulling my own tooth out.

Just to say about Denplan....
Denplan cover automatically includes a payout for diagnosed mouth cancers of some £000.
The dentist never told us about this element of Denplan cover, it was a friend who had had a similar cancer.

The money came in very handy at a very difficult time.

@PinkButtercups according to my dentist friend the care is not equal, simply because the NHS dentist will be out of pocket. She was telling me root canal treatment in particular is not equal as there are limitations on certain disposable materials. There's a type of bleach that is used to flush out the tooth either before or after the nerve is removed and some NHS dentists use watered down household bleach to keep costs down. I had a RCT on NHS several years ago and I still get nerve pain, she said it's because on NHS they are only allowed to use one barbed file (this tangles and removes the nerve) but privately they use approx 4 to ensure the nerve is fully extracted.

@Crikeyalmighty
I absolutely agree, action is needed.

Imagine your child is very bright, also articulate, good with people and manually dexterous.
They achieve 4 A*s at A level.
They spend 5 years at University with fees of 10k per year. They are cleverer and better qualified than your accountant or solicitor.

You pay some of their living expenses and some of their fees. Their debt is 80k.

The first year out they are salaried £33k. This is great for first year out of University.

Second year out of Uni, their indemnity is £4k per year and they have other compulsory expenses of £1k, such as GDC fees.

All day every day their fees have to pay another professional, their dental nurse. If qualified they would hope to earn £15 per hour. A trainee would be £11 per hour.

At least 50% of what they earn will be taken to cover things like rent, rates, heat, light, materials etc etc.

They are self employed so cover their own tax and NI.

What is their hourly rate? They have to absorb cost of living rises and have a FTB mortgage.

How long does it take to do things like an examination including medical history, pleasantries, extra oral examination, intra oral examination, dental charting (the nurse is a trainee don’t forget..), periodontal charting, radiographs, radiographic report, explain findings, diagnosis, treatment options and formulate a treatment plan, plus recording the above in full?

It takes final year dental students 1.5-2hours. It takes me 20-60 minutes after 20+ years of practice.

Let’s say 30 minutes.

How much is a check up now?

Hoping the MN mathematicians come up with something as the governments of the past 20 years, both Labour and Conservative have failed.

As a dentist, the action needed is to bin the NHS contract!

This exactly. I am an EU citizen and in my country of origin all dentistry is private, but a lot cheaper

After realising there was absolutely no way I was getting an NHS dentist, I went private today.

The difference was staggering.

I felt like I was at a spa.

The dentist took his time talking me through my dental health, listened to any worries, didnt push me for extra treatments and really took proper care of fixing my tooth.

The last time I accessed an NSH dentist was only made possible due to maternity exemption during lockdown. Cold hard plastic chairs in a tatty waiting room. The dentist was visibly annoyed I refused to pay for the private hygienist and wanted my teeth cleaned as part of the NHS entitlement. She did it in five minutes, left loads of tartar and actually chipped a tooth.

Was this the plan all along? Run it into the ground as unusable and not accessible?

Yup, that’s the plan. As is the plan for the wider NHS

I pay £95 for a check up, clean and polish twice a year. Seems pretty reasonable to me

People in the UK have a completely unrealistic idea of how much health care actually costs. They think it is free. Nobody wants to pay enough tax or insurance to provide decent care.
European health insurance costs the individual a bit more, but the standard of care is excellent. If you have a very low or no income you get health care free.
I don't pay out for having my nails done, or expensive hair colouring/styling, I don't buy expensive clothes. I do pay for a private dentist.
If we want a decent health service we will have to pay for it and organise it properly.

I pay £66 every six months for the hygienist, private and don't think that's too bad tbh .