AIBU to think that gentle parenting does more harm than good

[Hdaniels11]

I have a friend with a child the same age as mine (3). I like and value this friend, and shes had quite a shit life, with some turbulent times recently. Shes not with her sons dad anymore.

We had children at the same time, and i always felt very affectionate towards her little boy. But recently, his behaviour has behaviour has been appalling.

He doesnt listen to anything, hits btes and kicks other children; has insane ridiculous tantrums that go on for hours. My friends response to this is to indulge him as much as she can, never tells him off properly. For example, if my child picks up one of his toys, he will come over, snatch it and push my kid over. My friends response is to tell him: "dont worry, mummy knows your a good boy" She believes that telling him off would ‘damage his self esteem’ and that he’s ‘not being naughty, just expressing himself’

Its got so bad her ds’ nursery have had to have a word with her about his behaviour, saying that he is hurting other children and doesnt listen to anything. Her response to this is to get annoyed that hes being told off, and to refuse to accept there is a problem.

She went to get him checked out to see if he had autism or ADHD a year or so ago to see if their could be a diagnosis that could explain his behaviour. Its just her ‘gentle’ approach that is stunting his sense of empathy, discipline and self regulation.

In a deprived area, i feel you would this neglect. However, because shes middle class and is ‘gentley parenting’ its fine. I worry what will become of him, and i can fully imagine that as soon as school raise any issues, she will pull him outand home school him.

AIBU to think it actually stunts the child's growth never being punished properly for bad behaviour?

Not quite sure what this story illustrates but it isn't the perils of gentle parenting

Bingo

@Berrystraw , maybe you have it backwards. Parenting does not cause autism or ADHD. Maybe the parenting style is in desperate response to the child’s challenging behaviour exhibited because of their autism or ADHD.

@TallulahGosh , your user name is Heavenly 🦋

She’s not putting clear boundaries in place. I was reading something recently that said ‘authoritative’ parenting tends to be most effective.

Disablism in plain sight.

That is not gentle parenting that is permissive parenting which is a form of neglect.

’Respectful parenting’ is pretty much the same as gentle but doesn’t have the false stigma. Both approaches have firm boundaries at their core. Both avoid dismissing and minimising the emotions of children which our parents nearly all failed at and created a generation in need of therapy.

I wish more people would Google it, it’s not hard.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/sep/07/there-is-so-much-bad-behaviour-everywhere-how-to-raise-a-good-child-in-a-terrible-world

The book is called How to Raise Kids Who Aren’t Assholes. It's a really good read advocating kindness empathy for our children but having clear boundaries in place.

If another child pushed or otherwise attacked my child, I would have at least said "don't do that" very loudly.
If his behaviour is bad, I would avoid both parent & child.

It’s so boring when people mistake permissive parenting for gentle parenting. It’s really not the same.

Your friend is just a very poor parent because she is not preparing her child for life. He will find school very hard, as will his teacher and other children in his class. Clear firm boundaries are needed for children. People often commented my children were beautifully behaved. No, to hey we're just taught that tantrums don't pay off and good behaviour does get rewarded. Really not hard. If one of my children at 1 year at soft play started throwing the shapes at another child. I would pick child up and say you can't play if you throw shapes. After a couple of minutes I would let child back to play with warning if you throw shapes at children you will go home. Mine times out of ten they would behave and play nicely. On 1 or 2 occasions I have picked them up told them no and took them home. They soon learn what will happen if they don't play nicely. By time they were all 2 they understood what would happen if they did not play nicely so they behaved. No need for aggression or shouting just firm boundaries and decisive action.

Mumsnet say

It’s not hard

I did this and my children are perfect

Boundaries (oh, we do love a boundary on here)

Firm voice

Consequences

Its not hard - actually, yes, it is. Parenting is very hard. You’re confronted with lots of contradictory advice, and what works for one child won’t for another. I have seen one of my friends take her child’s wrists firmly and say NO, mummy will be very cross. It worked. If I did that to my child it would get me precisely nowhere.

I did this and my children are perfect - what’s funny is sometimes you can be a crap parent and get a lovely, pliable, easy child. Or a dedicated one and get a more - ah, spirited one. No one thing works all of the time.

Boundaries - well yes, there have to be boundaries. Children can’t run in traffic, break ornaments and so on. But before a certain age they really aren’t going to understand a ‘boundary.’ See above example with soft play. A twelve month old is not going to understand they’ve been taken out because of their behaviour. They just aren’t. Even at double that they will only have the most rudimentary grasp of what happened and why.

Firm voice can work brilliantly. Can also be a disaster. It can exacerbate situations rather than diffuse them. It can be a challenge and a red flag for a child who is already frustrated and angry.

Consequences - I’m all for carrot and stick but very young children just won’t get this and again it accelerates some situations and problems. If your child is frustrated because they want to play with something and another kid has it, being harsh and CONSEQUENCES, we will LEAVE then isn’t going to make them reflect on the error of their ways, it’s going to make them angry.

Non compliant children send that anger out. Compliant children internalise it.

Some of the unhappiest children come from overly strict homes. They are young, they will
learn. How we teach them is up to the individual - but I have found myself that the Mumsnet approved, harsh, no nonsense, firm voice, just upsets my child and makes him
angry and simply does not work.

I’m not sure one way or the other on gentle parenting, but I am definitely sick to the back teeth of people who are condescendingly passive aggressive when they see me putting up boundaries for my kids that they, for whatever reason, wouldn’t put up for their own kids. 9 times out of 10, their kids are a nightmare to be around. But yes, sure, I’m the borderline abusive authoritarian for insisting that they do their homework, don’t have unmitigated access to sweets, and go to bed at a reasonable time. 🙄

Tbh in a middle class environment and in a middle class school he will likely mellow as he gets older, as teachers will come down much harder on disruptive pupils (although more so in private schools than state). When I volunteered in rough schools as part of an outreach programme, naughty children were given up on, it was a disgrace.

Gentle parenting ? Does this mean any other way is rough parenting ? Utter tosh, just parent. Your friend is not parenting her child, she is allowing him to be naughty, she is bone idle and this will come back to haunt her. Let her get on with it and don't meet up.

Yanbu. I have a friend like this. She's a lovely woman but I refuse to have her 3.5 year old in my house ever again as she is just out of control. Shrieks, breaks toys, totally trashed my son's room even moving the mattress off the bed and going in my daughter's cot and refusing to budge. She then stripped totally naked and ran up and down the street while my friend called feebly after her. Unbelievable! Not once on this play date was she ever told off. My friend helped tidy the room and kind of said in a jokey, happy way to her dd that she shouldn't have done it but that was literally it.

I only see the child in places such as parks now. My house as mentioned is a no no and restaurants are hell with her too.

My friend just sees the behaviour as normal and brushes it off - 'she's only 3' etc etc. She bit her newborn brother so hard it left a mark on his cheek and even then she wasn't told off. Just ridiculous really.

I'm not a model parent by any means but do believe in discipline and boundaries for my children.

@Rosieisposy yes to everything you said

Also agree with @Rosieisposy

i am kind of a strict parent but can also be a bit shouty and impatient. My parents totally fucked me up by being too strict while simultaneously failing to teach me many proper life skills, so I’ve had to learn those myself.

Being a parent is by far the hardest thing I have ever done and I do think at least being aware of the correct definition of gentle parenting and what it is would help many (even if it’s not always so easy to practise the techniques!)

Empathy is such an important characteristic and I’m sure little kids learn it (like so much!) by seeing what parents and caregivers model. I am constantly trying to modify my parenting style so my son doesn’t end up messed up.

Or was Larkin ultimately right?!

Every kid I know who is rude, spiteful and doesn't do as they're told have Mothers who routinely react pathetically when they are misbehaving. 'Don't do that, darling' they say, in a sappy, weak, utterly pointless voice that has zero conviction or effect, then literally zero consequence follows, for the child.

A simple 'Oy, pack it in!' would be so much more effective!
,
I do feel sorry for the kids though because they get broadly labelled as 'naughty', when in fact they have just been given zero boundaries and allowed to run amuck without intervention.

I agree.
My 4 year old I have realised has no respect for me and I did all you said about hoping she would love me unconditionally. Where as dad is fully respected because his no means no and he sets firm boundaries.

I'm glad I am aware of this because I've started being firmer and slowly she is behaving more for me and realising (slowly) im not a pushover anymore. Not her fault. It's completely mine. I thought I was gentle parenting and in reality I was being a pushover and hoping for unconditional love in a toddler.

Now with my 18 month old im a different parent and hopefully I'll see the difference!

No comment on your friend and her parenting but I'm someone who's often been accused of being too soft and gentle with my son. My son is highly sensitive and anxious and I knew from one year old he was very different to his older sister. I felt that "normal" parenting/disciplining worked with her but found that a different approach was needed with my son. My son had multiple, exhausting tantrums as a toddler and now at 9 still has the occasional tantrum. The thing when he has these tantrums he's not being naughty - just just reacting to something very emotionally. He can't seem to control his emotions. For me to tell him off and punish him in that moment would be like pouring petrol on to a fire. I have to take a very gentle approach to coax him out of it, often involving humour. Once he has calmed down we'll discuss what happened and whether I think his behaviour was unacceptable. If appropriate there'll be consequences (punishments) which he can accept when he's calm. So many people have seen me reacting gently to him in the midst of one of his episodes. They've told me I'm too soft and what I should be doing instead (some people have told me hit him!). The thing is I'm his mother and I know (through years of experience) how to diffuse the situation. All kids are different and I don't think it's helpful to judge. My son absolutely has rules and boundaries. Sometimes different approaches are needed for different children. The theories in the book "Explosive Child" back up my approach to parenting my child.

Who is Shirley?

Can nobody just get on with it anymore? Why is there a need for all these ridiculous terms.

@SallyWD , hear hear. My son is exactly the same.