AIBU to think that gentle parenting does more harm than good

[Hdaniels11]

I have a friend with a child the same age as mine (3). I like and value this friend, and shes had quite a shit life, with some turbulent times recently. Shes not with her sons dad anymore.

We had children at the same time, and i always felt very affectionate towards her little boy. But recently, his behaviour has behaviour has been appalling.

He doesnt listen to anything, hits btes and kicks other children; has insane ridiculous tantrums that go on for hours. My friends response to this is to indulge him as much as she can, never tells him off properly. For example, if my child picks up one of his toys, he will come over, snatch it and push my kid over. My friends response is to tell him: "dont worry, mummy knows your a good boy" She believes that telling him off would ‘damage his self esteem’ and that he’s ‘not being naughty, just expressing himself’

Its got so bad her ds’ nursery have had to have a word with her about his behaviour, saying that he is hurting other children and doesnt listen to anything. Her response to this is to get annoyed that hes being told off, and to refuse to accept there is a problem.

She went to get him checked out to see if he had autism or ADHD a year or so ago to see if their could be a diagnosis that could explain his behaviour. Its just her ‘gentle’ approach that is stunting his sense of empathy, discipline and self regulation.

In a deprived area, i feel you would this neglect. However, because shes middle class and is ‘gentley parenting’ its fine. I worry what will become of him, and i can fully imagine that as soon as school raise any issues, she will pull him outand home school him.

AIBU to think it actually stunts the child's growth never being punished properly for bad behaviour?

I replied to your original headline but now reading your post.

Parenting is setting boundaries and setting the person up to live in society. If you aren't doing that it's not gentle parenting, it's not parenting.

But as a single parent it's hard near to impossible unfortunately.

Here’s the mistake your friend is making. She thinks he will love her unconditionally forever if she's this way, but it will not last. He will have zero respect for her. When my husband put our daughter on the naughty step, an absolute no-no for gentle parenting which I was into at the time (again, all great for a baby), I sat there listening to her cry thinking ‘am I neglecting my child? Am I letting him abuse her?’ but because my husband is a child mental health practitioner and a great parent I let it happen and trusted him, and she 100% learned from this, it worked.

Today she has consequences such as loss of luxuries like technology or playing out, and it's not a threat as such but a letting her know that this behaviour (speaking to us very disrespectfully for example, to be honest she is a very “good” child), is unacceptable and that we can't let it go on. I say to her ‘I can't let you speak to me like that because it won't bode well for our future.’ She has respect for us this is the thing, well more so for her dad because I do let things go but such is the nature of the mother as a rule. And at the same time the love she has for him is there as well, BECAUSE she respects him. Children need and love boundaries, even though they might not act like it at the time.

That's not gentle parenting. Gentle parenting or respectful parenting includes firm boundaries. If my toddler was to hurt another child I would first of all stop her. I would then tell her: "I can't let you hit/kick others. That hurts." Depending on the situation I might say something like: "I can see that you are upset that [other child] is playing with this toy. You also want to play with this toy. Why don't you play with this other toy over here?". I would also make it a point to apologise to the other child. If the situation arises continously I would say: "You have hurt [other child] again. We have to leave now." No screaming, no blaming, no drama. Firm but kind.

Off point, but how did she take her then 2yo to get "checked out for autism or ADHD"? It's not like you can just rock up at a clinic, especially with a child that young.

She isn't parenting at all, gently or otherwise.

All too often the term "gentle parenting" seems to be used to excuse wishy-washy and crap (non-existent) parenting. That is the category your friend seems to fall into.

I had a parent at work last week, who's five year old had had quite painful surgery. So taking pain relief was non negotiable. Dad would ask her if she wanted calpol and of course she'd say no. And parents just accepted it. I wanted to scream!! She had to have it IV in the end because pavers were pussyfooting round her. 😡

@Sprogonthetyne All j know is her ex (Ds dad) made quite a point about going to get him checked, i think he doesn't particularly like the way she parents either but he is way more vocal than me and can say a lot more. I would feel uncomfortable and mean pointing it out to her just because she's really struggling at the minute.

I’m not surprised she’s struggling, it must be very stressful dealing with a 3 year old who hasn’t been taught any boundaries!

That’s NOT gentle parenting, it’s just NOT parenting at all.

This basically.

I actually stopped being friends with someone because of their terrible parenting.

Is she doing it out of guilt? For splitting either the father. You often see this.

"She went to get him checked out to see if he had autism or ADHD a year or so ago to see if their could be a diagnosis that could explain his behaviour."

This part of your post is bollocks. Even with a private clinc ( the only way you would be able to just get a child checked out) no one would consider a diagnosis of adhd at age 2 and it would not be possible for the majority of children with autism.

That’s not gentle parenting!

The problem is that the term Gentle Parenting covers a lot of ground - everything from firm but loving guidance to a total failure of any boundary that would make the child feel safe and guide their development appropriately.

I had to stop seeing a friend a few years ago because she chose never to say no to her son, never to confront him, or challenge his will in any way. She had a sad childhood (she was sent away as a baby to family who looked after her responsibly but she never felt loved) and she wanted her son to be absolutely central in the way she never was. Totally understandable, but every year he got worse for anyone else to be around. Gentle parenting was a term that gave her confidence in the way she was parenting, but the truth is most of us parent the way we parent, and then we find words or theories to justify it.

I really hope they are doing alright because she is a lovely woman desperately trying to do her best.

Some kids have difficult behaviour like that and their parents have totally different attitudes and parenting styles. Maybe the kid will go on to be diagnosed with adhd or autism (they can’t have been assessed yet at that age). It can be hard to deal with. Unless your friend has explicitly told you that she believes in “gentle parenting“ and therefore never does anything to try change the behaviour, you don’t know what she does behind closed doors. Anyway it’s not a crime not to know how to deal with difficult behaviour. The kids only three. I wouldn’t write them both off yet. She might learn to parent better and he might have settled down by the time he gets to school. It’s early days.
Tbh, it takes more than just not saying No to a kid for them to have those kind of problems. There may be something else going on.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

But Gentle Parenting DOES have a definition and framework (for want of a better word).

She may CALL it gentle parenting but it’s not if she’s not following the principles.

And you can’t just take a kid to get ‘checked’ for autism and ADHD like it’s measles.

She may CALL it gentle parenting but it’s not if she’s not following the principles.

Oh agreed

She just can’t be bothered to be a parent and her child and society will bear the brunt of her uselessness.

I had a friend who never disciplined her DS and he turned into the most shockingly behaved child. My DS was the same age and he tried to use my DS as his own personal punching bag and would attack him at every opportunity such as biting, hitting, spitting, hair pulling, snatching toys, pushing him over, kicking etc. I cut contact after the friend would refuse to see he did anything wrong and worshipped the ground he walked on.

He’s now nearly 9 and I’ve heard that his behaviour is horrendous.

Interesting, as I wonder which social demographic are most likely to have children displaying poor behaviour in school, aggression, exclusion etc.

Then who is more likely to exhibit gentle parenting.

But that is not a valid comparison Rosieisposy. Better to match for social demographic, and then compare the behaviour of children whose parents practice Gentle Parenting with those of parents who don't.

Otherwise the outcome would be meaningless because we already know that poverty, parental education, secure housing etc have an impact on behaviour and learning.

I guess that it's a difference between gentle parenting, where the parent is calm but firm and passive parenting where the parent is failing to demonstrate to the child that their behaviour is unacceptable. With the latter approach, the child is far less likely to show respect to the parent(s) or others.

poverty, parental education, secure housing etc have an impact on behaviour and learning

Indeed - and why is that?

What is the difference between someone who lives in a council flat with a degree who reads to her children and the one who does not?

Ffs mumsnet. Learn the difference between gentle parenting and permissive parenting! 🤦‍♀️

I’m surprised that you think that autistic people have no empathy or discipline and that they bite people. I don’t have any recollection of behaving like that as a child.