To risk arrest for protesting about the climate emergency?

[medicellen]

I have recently taken part in climate protests with Extinction Rebellion but have stopped short of activities that would lead to an arrest.

I am a scientist and it has been beyond doubt for some years that the climate emergency is accelerating.

And yet, global carbon emissions continue to increase. Our government is granting new licences for fossil fuels, whilst oil companies rake in massive profits. This is utter madness (aka "collective suicide" according to the lead of the UN).

I have an 8-year old son who says one day he might like to have children. I have avoided saying that this may be either not possible or not desirable due to the state of the climate by then.

Petitions, campaigning, pleas, marches have failed. In my mind, the only option left is civil disobedience. Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage and civil rights and I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

So why doesn't ER set up those citizens' assemblies to start working on those plans. They don't have to be sanctioned by government to get started. Assemble the right mix of people in the room, with the right mix of knowledge and skills around the table, and come up with a realistic set of detailed recommendations about the specific actions that need to be taken/policies that need to be adopted. Figure out how the policies could be paid for, and how you would mitigate any risks. Instead of glueing yourself to things, start putting forward credible, workable solutions. Then challenge all of the political parties to adopt those recommendations.

That is such a pathetic argument, for two reasons, that it really needs to he challenged ever single time it's raised.

Firstly, yes, in terms of pure global emissions the UK only accounts for around 1.4% of them but that doesn't tell the whole story.

The Global Carbon Project do lots of work in this area and the data shows that the UK is the 17th largest contributor to global emissions in terms of territorial emissions and 12th largest in terms of consumption emissions, out of 192 nations. We are one of the "big" players and should lead by example.

Additionally, the west have outsourced huge amounts of their production emissions to the developing world, creating a false picture when it comes to territorial emissions. The average consumption footprint of someone living in the UK is over a tonne a year more than someone living in China and 4 times that of someone living in India. So again, we absolute should be leading by example in making efforts to reduce.

Secondly, the attitude of "well they're not doing X" or "they're worse than us" just doesn't hold sway. Should we reduce our efforts at equality, fair pay, safe working conditions, or human rights because China/India/Russia/USA are worse than us? Of course not, so why apply that logic here??

Agree with this.

I have to travel on the M25 tomorrow and will have no sympathy for the cause if l am stuck in traffic all day.

Don't know what the answer is but it's not this

It's hardly a mic drop moment. But as one of the bigger polluters then China is the place to go. Although the punishment you'd receive from them would probably hold you back from actually doing that. Sadly. Much easier to try and wreck innocent people's lives at home isn't it for your pointless activism.

Fuck me! Citizens assemblies. I can’t think of anything more likely to make things worse than consulting the general public. In the main the public are quite dim and easily manipulated, just look at Brexit. I would rather leave it up to whatever shower we have elected than have citizens assemblies

So why doesn't ER set up those citizens' assemblies to start working on those plans.
The cynic in me thinks they don't do this because it's too hard. It means being popular and persuasive.

The realist in me knows that independent citizens' assemblies are impractical, would carry very little influence unless they reached a critical mass, and would likely end up resembling a collection of Judean People's Fronts in a matter of weeks.

At a very local community level democratic assemblies work. At a national level people prefer being told what to do.

It would for some time, but if we stopped today it could prevent the worst effects of climate change hitting in the not too distant future.
But you're right - it would keep changing.
That is still man made climate change though.
Just because us stopping wouldn't magically reverse everything it doesn't mean it isn't man made I hasten to add!

It sounds really morbid, but I do believe we as a species might be on our way out (not within our lifetime probably and kost likely not within the lifetime of op's 8yo).

I care most about managing our exit in the least damaging way possible.
That includes making efforts to make the lives of people still on the planet as decent as possible.
Some people are already suffering as a result of climate change and that will get worse.
I think steps need to be taken to mitigate, such as flood defenses, desalination plants and even things like carbon capture.
That all takes money.
One of the big investors in carbon capture, renewable energy and the economies of developing countries are oil companies.
It is hugely complex and I'm in no way on the side of Shell or BP, but it is not as black and white as "just stop oil - here have some soup and glue".

People will disagree with me and say we should all take the hit now so that future generations can continue to live on earth...I actually don't agree.
I think there is balance to be had but that people need a reasonable standard of living first and foremost.
The planet will be fine without us.
I believe we will die out at some point maybe in the next few hundred years (unless a giant meteor hits or of science makes us somehow invincible).
I don't even see it as a bad thing.
A bad thing is people living a terrible life, so that's my priority.

Sorry, off topic a bit maybe!

Agreed. They're either out of touch about how many of us are struggling financially, or they don't care. Perhaps a massive fine will make them care a bit more about the fellow human beings they are trying to save the planet for.

Surely that’s the point of MPs anyway - to represent constituents

It would be a mess - who would they be and why

@scatterolight - BBC scaremongering? Mainstream media reporting about the gravity of the situation is woefully inadequate. Information within the scientific community is fucking terrifying. The "radicalisation" you are talikgn about is a product of people understanding what is coming our way

I think this is such an interesting question. I dont live near any of the extinction rebellion protests so have been unaffected but I watch on the news how the protestors block busy roads and dont let ambulances through or regular vehicles who really need to be able to pass. I think a couple of elderly people have died due to delayed treatment because of being stuck in a family members car. This does not endear me to the cause. A week or so ago there was the people in selfridges and fortnums throwing milk on the floor. I shop in asda so again, unaffected but with the cost of living i thought it seemed wasteful to go to these fancy shops and throw their expensive milk everywhere. Many are currently struggling to buy milk and other essentials and i felt bad for the low paid shop workers who inevitably had to clean it up. I feel like extinction rebellioun might be making the news etc but most of the antics are only inconvieniecing the poor ie. Those driving to work or who need to use nhs or working in shops. Ultimately your average person cant do much to save the climate in comparison with the developing world especially China who are pumping out sky high emissions. We have had our industrial revolution and some people are now in the fortunate position where they can spend their time protesting. In my largely uneducated view, the extinction rebellion are targetting the wrong people. Even by getting arrested, its the working man ie the taxpayer paying for that.

I wish the rebellers well in their quest, as i say, i dont no much about climate change myself and maybe you will all save the world but from where im sitting, the protests are largely making a difficult time for the ordinary person even more difficult and I therefore have little sympathy.

Why don't you do these things instead then, rather than sitting in the middle of a road, disrupting people, many of whom are already doing these things.

No idea what happened to my formatting here. Looks hideous. I hate my phone

OP I think the tipping point has already been reached. The climate emergency is here.
I still can't get over the lack of public response to one-third of Pakistan being flooded for months. Increasing food prices are partly caused by climate impacts.
And yet on MN well off people are talking about burning more wood this winter because of increasing food prices. There is expected to be an increase in air pollution in the UK as a result this winter.
Most people do not care about the climate emergency, they really do not. Things are going to get worse every year and I don't think there is anything we can do.

@hamstersarse - Im not against nuclear - it is less bad than carbon and we are running out of options. JSO are not suggesting stopping oil tomorrow - it is about no NEW licenses

@ShallowHalWantsAGal The problem with that argument is most of us here have kids. Do we really not care about their futures?

@Igneococcus - no one is suggesting immediately stopping oil. The JSO demand is for no NEW licenses and a rapid transition to renewables

@Kendodd - there are plenty of pensioners in XR and JSO. But then people abuse them because they have "used oil all their lives and now want to stop others from doing so"

"Politicians won't make the change because the general public will never vote for it. The solution is for the general public to make the decision!"

@TheSomersetGimp Are you assuming that anyone on this thread who objects to particularly thick posts is glued to an ambulance as we speak? I've never actually engaged in any activism, pointless or otherwise. I'm just easily irritated by stupid people.

Like many others on this thread, I don't believe that disrupting traffic etc will actually achieve anything (and is more likely to be counterproductive). There are better ways to protest - Greta Thunberg, for example. Ultimately, though, I really don't know what it would take to persuade governments around the world to make the kind of changes that are necessary. Maybe there isn't anything.

Fair point

Climate issues have been known for a while and we all inherit the previous generation’s lack of change.

Africa seems an interesting one, I don’t know much yet but the idea that countries that have benefited from gas would stop them now is fraught with potential issues.

Protesting on busy routes stopping people going to work, hospital appointments will only piss people off. Your heart is in the right place but the way it's done disrupts ordinary people. When you piss off ordinary people you lose support from the general public and then the press demonises you as if they care about ordinary people, but they use it as an opportunity to deflect it from the actual targets which are politicians and corporations. Please target politicians and corporations and not the general public. The general public are going through a lot anyway because of these politicians and corporations and it will make them even more angry when they become a target.

You certainly are not winning support for your cause by these criminal activities.

How is causing chaos for the general public going to help? They are the people who genuinely can't financially afford to make the changes you want to happen. You are punishing the wrong people and turning them against your cause.

The focus climate change activists have on the doom and gloom is not something the public is interested in. In my opinion, the way to get through to people is through the financial savings renewables can bring. Also the how renewables will make the UK less reliant on other nations. This is currently, I think, the way the general public thinks with the current energy crisis.

However, let's say the civil disobedience for climate change continues. What will the next step be when that doesn't work?