To risk arrest for protesting about the climate emergency?

[medicellen]

I have recently taken part in climate protests with Extinction Rebellion but have stopped short of activities that would lead to an arrest.

I am a scientist and it has been beyond doubt for some years that the climate emergency is accelerating.

And yet, global carbon emissions continue to increase. Our government is granting new licences for fossil fuels, whilst oil companies rake in massive profits. This is utter madness (aka "collective suicide" according to the lead of the UN).

I have an 8-year old son who says one day he might like to have children. I have avoided saying that this may be either not possible or not desirable due to the state of the climate by then.

Petitions, campaigning, pleas, marches have failed. In my mind, the only option left is civil disobedience. Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage and civil rights and I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

I'm a scientist too @carefulcalculator and I don't believe we have reliable and sufficient supply of renewable energies that would allow us to immediately end all usage of fossil fuels without risking supply of vital commodities. You know I'd quite like to be certain that there is a supply of for example thyroxin in future because I'd be in a coma within 10 days if there won't be. And I have a very clear idea how much energy goes into pharmaceuticals and how much that production relies on reliable energy supply.
I can be scientist, believe that something needs to be done about climate change and still think that the suggested solutions aren't actually going to work in reality.

I assume that's for me - it's pretty clear in the context of my whole post that that is not what I meant. Good illustration of the lack of nuance in the "let's just protest again and again even when it doesn't work" approach though

If you're a scientist then you must be capable of critical analysis. Do you own a globe of the planet, or a world map? Have you seen how tiny the UK is in terms of land mass? For example, Texas is nearly 3 times the size of the UK. Unless the likes of the USA, India, China and Russia get on board with eliminating fossil fuels, what we do here is laughably ineffectual.

We in the UK are a soft target for virtue signallers like you. What do you think you and your middle class chums are achieving by preventing working class people from getting to work, or sick people getting to hospital? Most in the UK are sensitive to the climate issue, we don't need preaching to.

You as a scientist should also know that correlation does not prove causation. The suffragettes who carried out public stunts such as at the races, probably did more harm to their cause than good.

If you were serious about your campaign, rather than it being a trendy middle class hobby, take it to the countries that can make a difference.

We try! We don’t need the public to alter their behaviour- obviously, consuming less, flying less and switching to a plant based diet would be great , but we need systemic change.

so what we need the public to do is to join and amplify what is happening and put pressure on the governments to change the system. To tax accordingly and to make burning of fossil fuels illegal and change to renewable energy. We have all the solutions, it’s just that there are people still getting extremely rich from fossil fuels and they have a lot of power and are well connected.

however, there are many more of us so if we wanted we could change things.

@medicellen Reasonable adults know that making things difficult for the people you want to support you will not work.
Why would I support a group who go out their way to stop people getting where they need to be?

I think you need to bring awareness but not in a way that disrupts the general public and causes distain towards you and the cause. All they see are the twats in the road that are stopping them getting to work not ‘oh wow so glad people are bringing climate issues to the forefront’. It alienates you from your target audience.

So yes hold rallies, but march through cities, educate the public rather than angering them. Campaign for the government to do more, push education in schools, engage with big businesses to make changes. I think it needs to be from the top down rather than the bottom up. As PP says our reuseable carrier bags and paper straws aren’t going to make an ounce of difference against China.

@medicellen because civil rights and womens rights benefitted millions. There are so many people who don’t even believe in the climate crisis (like it’s a faith 🙄) and the changes people would have to make to their lives are vast. It’s easier to take the ostrich approach 😢

You know you should use less, so why not just do that?

Why do you need someone else to tell you exactly what to do, when you already know?

This is some fucked up psychology to say 'even though I know exactly what needs to be done, I refuse to do it until it is marketed to me in a way I find irresistable'.

It's hardly going to get people on side by stopping them getting to work / hospital / wherever they need to be. It's just going to make people angry. I don't believe for one moment that people stuck in cars for hours on end are supportive of people behaving in this manner. It's eco terrorism. And we should never give in to terrorism.

I don't share your optimism unfortunately. You say the public want change, until we 'spoil their view with a wind farm. I'm guilty myself, although I'm happy to have wind and solar farms everywhere (and I do think they're an eyesore) I still fly on holiday. I know I should stop and need someone to make me stop and would vote accordingly.

@medicellen we aren't going to engineer ourselves out of fundamental laws of thermodynamics, I agree, but how are you proposing to deal with the immediate impact of stopping all fossil fuels? You must have put some thought to that.

Protestors causing disruption won't trigger action from the government. If I saw a positive plan and action towards installing more renewable energy facilities in the UK that's something I could get behind.

Leading by example can be really effective. There are villages in the North who are crowdfunding to install solar panels and wind turbines to try and stop having to rely on the grid. This I can imagine working and would happily support locally to me.

I'm not well at the moment. I keep having to attend hospital appointments in London. The trains are an utter shitshow so I have little option but to drive there. Worrying about whether I'll be able to get round the M25 or will be prevented by protestors adds another layer of crap that I could really do without.

there are climate activists all over the world.

you can continue doing bugger all about it and watch the world literally burn, or you can do something about it. That is the choice that you have.

No

What successive governments have sone is eco terrorism

They are destroying our planet

Instead of saying why they are wrong - tell me what exactly is the right cause of action

And don't say explaining it to people because that doesn't work
Nor does anything else people have tried for 30 years

All that is happening, but it isn’t making the necessary changes because we need systemic change. And for that we need a certain percentage of the public to get behind the changes.

If you are saying you have exhausted all the sensible options and now you want to vent your frustration. I get that. But it does not mean that you are doingsomething effective to enact serious change. Sorry.

You're getting (understandably) angry and you think by expressing that anger in a protest the elite will listen. I'm sorry to say that is unlikely to happen.

"What do I do about it then?" I hear you cry. Well, the thing is, that if you're fed up of doing the letters to MPs and peaceful protests and the other things peopple have suggested and you believe they're getting you nowhere...honestly, I'm sad to say I don't think there's anything left that you can do.

This is all just my opinion obviously and maybe enough people will glue themselves to things that world leaders suddenly take note and just stop burning oil. However, my understanding of politics and international relations says no to that, but again, just my opinion

You’ll get a slap in the wrists. And one day your grandchildren will know that you protested to protect their future.
TBH I see climate change protestors as similar to suffragettes or civil rights protestors. Something needs to be done and the people in power really aren’t listeningZ

I don't think agree it is ecoterrorism, I would define it as ecoresistance. Resistance movements have always been called terrorism by those in power, but Just Stop Oil lot are more on the side of ordinary people than the government and the big oil companies.

Whether the tactics are right/working is worthy of discussion - but I don't agree they should be defined as terrorists.

‘It's eco terrorism. And we should never give in to terrorism’

blocking traffic is not ‘terrorism’ - wind your neck in..

We will have to agree to disagree on that. Whilst I have some sympathy for the cause / passion, causing massive disruption to ordinary people's lives is never going to be a successful strategy.

You know what will stop many people getting to work? The extreme climate that is already happening. The flooding and the heatwaves etc.

Itll also stop many people from accessing food and shelter.

That is what is going to be disruptive. You want to wait until it gets like that? Until our life is like many are already experiencing in the global south?

carry on moaning about a couple of people being a bit late to work instead of using your privileged voice to protest.

Grow up.

You’ll get a slap in the wrists

I would not count on that!
The law has now changed.
Public perception has changed too, and they expect the activists to be charged properly and for deterrent prosecution.
Patience I am afraid has truly run out in terms of the public and public enforcement.

Excuse typos btw, I'm on my stupid phone

You're certainly winning hearts and minds here. Just as influential with the written word as you are when you're super glued to a road. Personally I think the UK should take the French approach of not carefully removing the glue before removing the hand from the road.