To risk arrest for protesting about the climate emergency?

[medicellen]

I have recently taken part in climate protests with Extinction Rebellion but have stopped short of activities that would lead to an arrest.

I am a scientist and it has been beyond doubt for some years that the climate emergency is accelerating.

And yet, global carbon emissions continue to increase. Our government is granting new licences for fossil fuels, whilst oil companies rake in massive profits. This is utter madness (aka "collective suicide" according to the lead of the UN).

I have an 8-year old son who says one day he might like to have children. I have avoided saying that this may be either not possible or not desirable due to the state of the climate by then.

Petitions, campaigning, pleas, marches have failed. In my mind, the only option left is civil disobedience. Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage and civil rights and I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

XR, like JSO, are funded (to the tune of millions of pounds) by Getty, among others. Funny that you see it as a spontaneous, individual act.

And again, to add. I think some voices of protest have been incredibly compelling and they have undoubtedly helped to spark public debate and raise awareness.

I have seen no evidence to date that the XR/JSO antisocial behaviour style protests have had that effect. The article that you linked to did not offer any such evidence. From my own observations, I believe that protests of that nature actually have the opposite effect.

I don't disagree in the slightest that urgent climate action is needed. I just don't agree that the XR approach is the way to make this happen. You clearly disagree, which is fine. Hopefully, we'll get there sooner rather than later, whether it is in spite of the protests or because of them. Personally, I think they do more damage to the cause than good.

I think this post sums it up for me well.

The lack of ability to form a cohesive argument that isn't full of so many holes its laughable.

And they wonder why the organisation isn't taken seriously and people don't think its credible.

Do better rather than doing vanity pr stunts.

I think preventing people from getting to work, school and medical appointments is going to turn off the public. Think about the single parent on minimum wage that doesn't get paid if they don't make it in to work, trying to survive during a cost of living crisis.

Protest but direct it in the right way. Make life difficult for the politicians and worst companies. Not the ordinary working person. Tbh you've turned me off, I'd be dragging you off the road in you got in my way!, and I am very worried about climate change. You've got no hope with people who are on the fence.

You need to get the people behind you and the campaign or you are just going to be branded as a difficult subversive minority. And the tories will bring in laws that make protesting even more difficult than it is already (with the backing of the pissed off public) which will be a huge backward step and issue for democracy.

I think you don't have the public onside so are doing little for the cause
Plus mother nature always wins
The average person is trying the best within their means
I mean we can't all go and buy an electric car ( i have reservations that is actually better anyway personally- due to batterY life and how they are mined and how we have to produce electric)
More campaigning for ways the public can help and change is better, but even if we did everything right in the uk , us alone cannot change the world
Plus how many if these supporters have travelled by car , have more electric gadgets than needed so maybe don't practice what they preach

Thanks for all you're doing.

The world is insane, I'm so tired of hearing espoused support for new policies and climate commitments, but no action.

Those who think a bit of disruption on the M25 is the end of the world need to open their eyes to the actual end of the world.

The majority don't give a shit and will roll their eyes at you but you crack on...

Go and find an activist to talk to and check out their lifestyle. You will find them trying to live more sustainably and involved in nature restoration projects but they know that is not enough

I don't need to "find" an activist since I already know too many, and with a few notable exceptions they all live in ways which utterly negate the message they pretend to support

Luckily it's very easy to smoke them out - just wait until the chatter turns to the latest bit of tech they've simply got to have, ask them if it wouldn't be better to keep their present stuff a bit longer and wait for the gormless stare

I'm starting to think that the Canadian 2021 tactic of freezing truckers bank accounts is reasonable in the case of environmentalists who are actively preventing people earning money / picking up their dependents / getting medical treatment.

I get that you are worried, but aren't you more use in your lab working out how to fix this stuff?

I know there's no magic wand and that in many cases the best we can hope for is a least worst option, but preventing people from living their lives is not going to help you gain support.

Those who think a bit of disruption on the M25 is the end of the world need to open their eyes to the actual end of the world.

That's the point though. Most of us don't think that a bit of disruption on the M25, or a bit of spilt milk or soup on a painting are the end of the world. They are minor annoyances that are somehow being allowed to distract from the very real issues that actually matter. I don't want the media to keep endlessly focusing on the pointless antics of a bunch of self-promoting eco-warriors when they should be focusing on the suffering that is actually being caused by climate change right now. XR and their colleagues have become the story but they are not the solution.

They all pretend to be scientists.

That's the thing though isn't it, if they all claim to be experts in this field. Them why have they not written up their own action plan and white paper, that all other scientists in the actual field of work can peer review and get behind and offer their solutions to the world.

The big fat answer is they can't , there a set of obnoxious fools who would rather spend their time pissing off hard working people with their childish antics than coming up with some coherent scientific research, they can get others to agree upon. There full of hot air and just quote random bollocks, and spout well known facts to the public as though they are some sort of meshhias.

They just want to protest cause disruption while others do the hard work and research.

I think a slogan of "Ban it or Tax it" is probably better than anything written on their website.

Was Greta Thunberg a scientist when she started this at 13?

No, of course she wasn't and yet by some sleight of hand, everyone from the Pope downwards was kissing her arse.

The movement has no credibility for me and when Nostradamus like-they come out with predictions that the world will burn in 2040, I just think oh do fuck off!

Off you fuck to protest in China? No? Well shut up then.

Fred Flintstone may be lovely but I don't want to emulate him. Zero Emissions my arse.

@RedToothBrush

Which renewables? Where?
Offshore, floating offshore more again.

Ultimately PtL
What scale do we need to upscale what we have?

Wind energy is planned to grow by 500% within a decade
Do we have enough people to install enough renewable generators?
Training and education is one of the top priorities of the sector.

Is it cost effective - will it help people have lower bills?
Renewables are now cheaper than fossil fuels over their lifecycle - yes it will help lower bills

How is the investiment in infrustructure being funded? Is it public / privately owned?
The technology is funded largely by collaborative research and development, i.e. joint government commercial partnerships the organisation reseponsible for this in the UK is Innovate UK there grants funding site is here. There are also levelling up funds and build back better.

What issues are there will renewables in terms of meeting demand at peak times - if there is no wind or solar for example?
Energy storage, I wish I'd thought of this I hope it makes them very rich! And maybe Small Modular Nuclear.

Is our battery tech sufficient at present? If its not do we need to invest to improve this?
There are new technologies being developed all the time and old technologies being reengineered - sorry I couldn't find a good link

You need a credible plan for replacement not just demanding like petulant toddlers who just ignore the practical boring stuff of 'how'.

As per my previous post, I do not support JSO:

No one has offered a viable alternative strategy to try and mitigate the climate emergency.

Simply put we need to stop burning fossil fuels, in that context JSO are correct but sustainability also has social and economic pillars. Bearing this in mind I suggest to you that we need to reduce our reliance on gulf and Russian oil and the conflicts and inequalities those states perpetuate. So we need to create an energy buffer, which reluctantly can only only come from fossil fuels while we also massively increase our renewable energy supply. Net zero by 2050 is doable but we need to be pragmatic and realistic in our journey.

(And no-one will need to stop flying).

So your plan is to smash windows, throw soup at paintings and carry on blocking the roads. OK. I thought you were a scientist so would have something interesting to say, but I'm just bored of this thread now ...

When are you going to realise that the protests alienate the public, and that having a miles of stranded cars running their engines just causes more pollution ? I was caught up in the M25 mess yesterday, and I'm still fuming. I feel nothing but fury towards the protesters. How is that helpful ? Heard a guy on the news who was travelling to his Father's funeral, he had to go home so missed it. Not to mention the total waste of police resources.

Where did you get that figure from? It seems extraordinarily implausible. Previous Oxfam reports have placed around 15% on the heads of the richest 1% and even that is based on very broad assumptions (their words not mine).

I would take much more notice of ER if they took positive action rather than undertaking civil disobedience.
Our local group regularly stand by the roundabout waving their flags with their designer dogs at their feet, fly posting (which then gets ripped down and you just see unsightly remnants) and putting stickers on nature boards obscuring the information about how to care for the local habitat.
If during their protests they had a quiet word with the people sitting in their cars with their engines idling or picked up the litter in the bit where they are protesting I might feel a bit more engaged.
The sentiment that I get from the local branch is that this is so much the fault of the government that they don't even need to try to improve things locally.
And yes I did pick the rubbish up myself.

Some PPs have suggested going to protest in China. It is not China’s fault that we buy so much from them. Unfortunately capitalist entrepreneurs the world over will always exploit the demands of the general public. History and the study of economics tells us that the only way to successfully counter demand is to interfere in the market. The problem we are faced with is that our markets are flooded with cheap imported unsustainable products so there is no incentive for businesses or the public to consider the greener options. I do agree that we need more pressure put on Government and I think now is the time to start formulating real solutions.

Prior to the introduction of VAT in 1973, we had Purchase Tax (originally introduced in 1940) charged at 33.3 per cent tax on goods classed as 'luxury' and purposefully designed to discourage waste. Such as shame it was abolished as it is exactly what we need now.

Tax the hell out of super yachts, flashy cars and other unnecessary luxury spending that is polluting the planet. Anything beneficial to the environment, such as installing renewables, bicycles, and locally produced sustainable food and clothing for example should be tax free.

The Government needs to encourage people to make better decisions by making it easier to choose the environmentally sound option because it is cheaper than the wasteful alternative. For the those who don’t care about the environment, they can still buy their wasteful luxuries, but they will pay punitive taxes that can be used to help in other ways – seems very fair to me. We are seeing this already - the price of heating our homes has increased to a point where most people are actively looking for ways to cut consumption. Unfortunately price inflation is hitting the poorest the hardest. Using a tax designed to increase the price of luxury goods the most, should hit the wealthy the hardest.

We need to accept that we have no control over places like China, but we can control our own consumption.Production and pollution in China would be reduced or become more sustainable if that is what the rest of the world demanded.

@Unicorn1919 but we can control our own consumption

Environmental product declarations allow us to make informed choices

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@Daftasabroom I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

Those who think a bit of disruption on the M25 is the end of the world need to open their eyes to the actual end of the world.

I couldn’t give a stuff what happens on the M25 most of the time, but statements like this piss me off. The world will not actually end. It existed for billions of years before humanity. Our species will either adapt to climate change or die off. But the world will keep turning regardless. Being dismissive of other people’s significant problems (such as getting an ambulance to hospital) while engaging in hyperbole make you look ridiculous.

Personally, I can’t stand XR because they seem like spoilt brat drama queens form my working-class perspective. The second they disrupted a commuter train was the second they lost my support. If they had any sense they’d be encouraging public transport, not stopping it. They may not need to work (class privilege perhaps?) but most people need to keep a roof over their heads. As for throwing away perfectly good food at a time when tens of thousands in the UK are using food banks (and millions world wide are literally starving), that is simply immoral.

And I’ve yet to meet an environmentalist willing to accept nuclear fission as an intermediary energy source while we perfect nuclear fusion. It’s almost as though they think the public will accept a dramatic, sustained drop in standard of living “for the greater good”. Idiots.

Climate change might be unprovable but getting covered in shite when you go swimming, getting lung conditions from pollution, having a massive bill because all the heat escapes from your attic etc may get people to "look up

All these can actually be solved through good regulations on industrial waste, better insulation and using EVs in urban areas.

It has little to do with carbon emissions.

We need to accept that we have no control over places like China, but we can control our own consumption.Production and pollution in China would be reduced or become more sustainable if that is what the rest of the world demanded

The living standards of the average Chinese person improved massively thanks to this; it was the biggest poverty reduction action in history.

And don’t worry, even if ‘the West’ stopped buying Chinese goods (improbable), the Chinese are more than happy to keep providing the middle-income and developing countries with their goods while the West commits civilisational suicide for reasons best known to themselves