To risk arrest for protesting about the climate emergency?

[medicellen]

I have recently taken part in climate protests with Extinction Rebellion but have stopped short of activities that would lead to an arrest.

I am a scientist and it has been beyond doubt for some years that the climate emergency is accelerating.

And yet, global carbon emissions continue to increase. Our government is granting new licences for fossil fuels, whilst oil companies rake in massive profits. This is utter madness (aka "collective suicide" according to the lead of the UN).

I have an 8-year old son who says one day he might like to have children. I have avoided saying that this may be either not possible or not desirable due to the state of the climate by then.

Petitions, campaigning, pleas, marches have failed. In my mind, the only option left is civil disobedience. Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage and civil rights and I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

We could have something like a loyalty card - every time we eat out (sorry, dine out) the restaurant stamps it to confirm that we didn't eat imported beef. Just in case the Green Guards stop us in the street and demand we prove our eco credentials.

I think the activists are seriously deluded if they think it is their antics that are keeping climate change on the agenda. Has it genuinely not occurred to them that people are talking about climate change not because someone threw some soup at a Van Gogh painting but rather because we're actually seeing the impact of climate change out in the real world, whether that is in the form of record breaking temperatures in UK heat waves or a third of Pakistan being under flood water etc.

It is incredibly patronising to think that people will be unaware of these issues anyway, and there is something incredibly self important about the assumption that it is only their own performative protests that will make anyone care enough to do anything. Why don't they see that the basic facts of climate change are infinitely more powerful and persuasive than any of their pointless protests?

I'm not saying that people shouldn't protest. Not at all. Go and protest outside Parliament. Lobby your MP. March in the streets or whatever. Just don't waste your time on silly stunts that will alienate a lot of sensible people from your cause

The most workable solution is to limit carbon emissions from fossil fuels, if not starting 40 years ago via a manageable transition, then starting today. There aren’t many ‘workable solutions’ that don’t involve use of our already limited and contested resources, cost, pollution, energy or ironically increased carbon emissions or negative effects on other systems

'They've got a little list....'

They've got a little list....'

MrsDanvers - well it worked in East Germany…..for a bit, anyway.

How? You've admitted the public would never vote for the decisions and that they can't critically evaluate evidence.

That works until your regime collapses and people find out who were keeping the lists and who was giving them the info. Timothy Garton Ash wrote an interesting book about that.

www.amazon.co.uk/File-Personal-Timothy-Garton-Ash/dp/1848870884/ref=sr_1_1?crid=PRIZ0EFQP6WM&keywords=the+file+timothy+garton+ash&qid=1667922679&sprefix=timothy+garton+ash%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-1

It’s just a fact that public concern about climate change consistently increased in response to Extinction Rebellion actions, it’s got nothing to do with being patronising. Now that you know that will you change your mind in response to evidence? It’s actually very deluded to think that public opinion just follows facts rather than being influenced by things that grab people’s attention. The science on climate change has been clear for about 50 years, why is it people weren’t more concerned before? Because of oil company and right wing media propaganda.

Blocking me getting to work or where I need to be isn't going to get me on your side, I'd just think you're a cunt. Same goes if you throw some soup over a painting, grade A cunt.

This thread is a perfect example of why XR and the others have made fuck all change. Even when they get attention from one of their stunts and people ask them what they want done, all they have is vague statements about "the government taking action." If you don't have any real demands, your actions are attention-seeking stunts and not protests.

Why start an AIBU when you clearly believe that you are not?

I expect you'll say that you're just trying to spread the word as far and as wide as you can, persuade people to follow your lead: but I wonder if this is just a halo-polishing look-at-me exercise really.

Maybe if you targeted the people who have the ability to make the changes (Oil magnates and those that hold enough money to actually do something) instead of the severely unwell person in the ambulance you are holding up or the people trying to feed their families, people would actually take you seriously instead of just feeling pissed off with you all.

That works until your regime collapses and people find out who were keeping the lists and who was giving them the info. Timothy Garton Ash wrote an interesting book about that.

Yes, indeed. Timothy GA’s book is excellent and I also enjoyed Stasiland.

Quite honestly I can’t see that level of surveillance catching on here - though one never knows.
Also, as you said upthread, who qualifies as super rich?

Neither have you done 3.

Not that people feel they can buy into and is viable. And thats the problem - until that gap is closed there will be a problem.

You need to offer what people want as well as helping them realise what they don't want.

So cheaper energy / energy stability and security / better technology / sustainable jobs / quality of life.

I think its doable but I don't think your manifesto is connecting.

You cant demand people support you by direct action. That will just entrench views and cause hostility.

You need to work on common ground / interest.

Its so hard being a parent at this time and worrying about the future our children will have to face. And also to be aware of the horrors that mothers in the global south are already dealing with. I saw a doctor on TV recently talking about having to tell a mother her child had died due to climate related famine. Just awful!
Well done for taking action in whatever way you can… I certainly want my children to know that there are people around who are trying to make things better - trying to persuade the government to take meaningful action and trying to make people aware of the emergency.

@Alexandernevermind - I haven't replied because I haven't seen any. We cannot tech our way out of this, our current political system is not fit for purpose, personal lifestyle choices are insufficient, small local activities help locally but do not change the coming impacts of the climate emergency. Our only chance is major systematic reform delivered by government and they are not doing it, as evidence by a recent case taken against them

You can be sure from recent experience there'd be people absolutely gagging to be issued with their little notebook and official badge and permission to dob in their neighbours and colleagues; and would positively enjoy doing it.

The problem is that annoying the ordinary person on the street in the U.K. will not make any difference to your cause. You need to basically go to places like China and get them to shut down their huge power stations to actually make a difference (but I guess that’s too difficult/politically incorrect, so you’ll just keep irritating people here for no reason).

It didn't work for suffrage if you read up on it it harmed the cause more than promoted.

OP: seeing the actions of extremists makes me so angry, to the extent that I want to come home, turn on all my gas hobs and just let them burn all evening for the sake of it. And then chuck all my recycling in landfill. You need to understand that severely pissing people off and messing with their essential activities such as getting to school/hospital/work doesn’t help the climate emergency. It actually hinders it - it’s not even a neutral action - it is an extremely provocative action that has negative consequences for the cause.

With all due respect I've offered positive suggestions of things every individual can do and links to government initiatives. You might do well to read your own thread.

Its so hard being a parent at this time and worrying about the future our children will have to face

They are among the luckiest generation of humans to be born. Life used to be a misery and very difficult for the common person. Fossil fuels spread comfort and wealth that a rich person 200 years ago could not even contemplate.

And also to be aware of the horrors that mothers in the global south are already dealing with. I saw a doctor on TV recently talking about having to tell a mother her child had died due to climate related famine. Just awful

Were you born yesterday? Famine was a fact of life for many around the globe until recently. Deaths due to famines have dropped precipitously since records have been kept, despite the huge jumps in population: ourworldindata.org/famines

Much of China's emissions are directly attributable to products manufactured and sold to the west. It's basically massively hypocritical unless you stop buying Chinese made products.

Do it in stages. Ban all wood-burning stoves where houses also have gas and electric - could do that immediately.
In twelve months ban them for all houses that have close access to gas and electric suppliers.
Two years ban them for all who have houses with electricity.

Two years gives you enough time to sort out an alternative.

@antelopevalley yeah forcing rural folk to buy electric radiators whilst China/India/Russia push out tonnes of crap and people fly on their private jets. Great idea! 😫