To risk arrest for protesting about the climate emergency?

[medicellen]

I have recently taken part in climate protests with Extinction Rebellion but have stopped short of activities that would lead to an arrest.

I am a scientist and it has been beyond doubt for some years that the climate emergency is accelerating.

And yet, global carbon emissions continue to increase. Our government is granting new licences for fossil fuels, whilst oil companies rake in massive profits. This is utter madness (aka "collective suicide" according to the lead of the UN).

I have an 8-year old son who says one day he might like to have children. I have avoided saying that this may be either not possible or not desirable due to the state of the climate by then.

Petitions, campaigning, pleas, marches have failed. In my mind, the only option left is civil disobedience. Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage and civil rights and I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

I am now contemplating arrest as the only meaningful contribution I have left.

What effect do you think this will have?

I personally would have thought it would have zero effect - as people are fully aware of the problem but feel either powerless or confused about what they can do to help as there is so much green washing out there.

I would have thought it would massively adversely affect your 8 year old son - especially if it did lead to prison.

I think a lot of these protests are just pissing people off and making more people feel powerless and switch off or makes it easier to put in nut case fringe folder and forget or dispute as they hate the protestors.

Yes, this is how I see it too.

BUT, mitigating against the impacts of climate change while also reducing emissions means we may be better prepared to deal with the 'disaster' and we also prevent it getting worse in the future.

At no point will throwing soup at a painting help (imo) but there you are

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I agree people will not make changes. They won't even make small changes like buy a smaller car. Everyone with a large 4x4 insists they need it.

And gluing yourself to a Van Gogh etc is going to help how exactly?
If anything it's turning people away from helping.
Blocking ambulances? Despicable.

Back in my protest days , we were very carefully trained in the difference between legal protest, and behaviour that risked or invited arrest. Plus, our legal rights when arrested.

Indeed!

The thing is, activists chucking soup at paintings, pouring milk all over the floor and glueing themselves to the road are not going to persuade ordinary people to make changes in their own lives, nor to vote for politicians who will be brave enough to legislate for those changes. The activists just make themselves look like nutters tbh, and they weaken the very argument that they are trying to make.

the Brexit decision was influenced by a media and politicians with vested interests who deployed frank lies to the public. I dont think it is because they are incapable of making a sensible decision

So not only do you admit that green measures are untenably unpopular with the voting public, but also that the voting public is unable to critically evaluate what they're told by people with vested interests. And yet you believe the solution to climate change is to let an assembly of the voting public make the decisions. Can you explain how that works?

We don't drive - we live in city so it was manageable but recent train and local bus strikes have massively affected us - price increases post covid and disruption services do mean I wonder if we will have to drive at some point.

I have to admit I eye rolled when a "green journalist living in London claimed he couldn't manage without car because he had a grown son and a cat.

I live in a city with much less well subsidized and extensive public transport - in fact several locations - we manged with work children and cats not to drive.

He also mention two flight holidays in one year - and then lectured about CO2 emissions - I haven't been on a plane in 20 years.

Better public transport - road changes to make cycling safer - I could get behind but only party here last election talking about that was Tories - not even the green candidate was.

I completely disagree that most people are fully aware of the problem.

OP, if you can do this without risking your career then go for it. I wish I could join you.

Agree about the stupid 4x4 thing.
They should be massively taxed and the money put towards green initiatives.
Unless you have a good reason to have one.

I disagree. If the activists weren’t doing those things the media wouldn’t pay them any attention at all. I expect a lot of people though the suffragettes were lunatics at the time. But what they did worked.

We need to do whatever we can to draw attention to the issue. Most people are happily just burying their heads in the sand.

It's a maths game, he assumes that the increase in energy use by mankind will continue along the same trajectory it has for the last few thousand years and that at some point that energy demand will be more than all the energy available in the galaxy.

To quote: The purpose of this exploration is to point out the absurdity that results from the assumption that we can continue growing our use of energy

Nobody, but nobody is suggesting we increase our use of energy indefinitely.

This is one of the real issues we face with the media and reporting of climate change, a hypothetical piece of maths fun can be interpreted by some as a statement of science fact. And this is true on both sides.

And you bought into the absurdity as fact.

It's not getting people on side though is it. And plenty of us do care about climate change. But really this insane behaviour will make people turn their backs. Climate change has been on the agenda long before the just stop oil brats got on the scene.

Yes, but what would this non-violent civil disobedience look like?

The thing about the Civil Rights movement was that a minority were being seriously disadvantaged by discriminatory laws and so they said 'we're going to disrupt the lives of the majority until we get treated equally'. The public perception of ER is that a minority of relatively well-off and socially advantaged people (scientists for example) are disrupting the lives of ordinary people over a problem that ordinary people aren't responsible for creating and that is affecting all of us (not just the minority protesting) - it's a whole different look. I don't think you can employ the same tactics.

We will have to agree to disagree about whether their tactics are working. You think it's getting media attention. I think it's encouraging people to dismiss them as extremists who are just out to cause trouble.

We are both concerned about people burying their heads in the sand about this issue. You think that the extreme protests will wake people up to what's happening. I think they will just give people an excuse to dismiss the activists as extremists and to bury their heads in the sand further.

Just Stop Oil are basically the same as the English Defence League and other similar groups. They have an end aim but no idea as to how to get there, in practical terms, in a way that "normal" people can get on board with. Therefore the public just think of them as troublemaking idiots.

You can't equate JSO with the EDL. The EDL are racist white-supremacist thugs.

Mass arrests advanced the causes of suffrage

Back when arrested women had so little to lose.

Few had any education, qualifications , personal money or a bank account. So court fines were meaningless. Being called terrorists, had nothing like the impact it does today.

Today, protesters convicted of terrorism, arson, criminal assault and violent crimes are likely to suffer lifetime consequences in employment , housing, and much else.

@ILikeToSleepALot Any kind of climate action that would truly make a difference would require all of us, especially in the West, to change our lives to an unacceptable degree.

But this is a myth perpetuated by the right wing press, the changes we need to make will improve our lives not make them worse.

And I would add, I don't think that the media attention that the activists are getting for the various stunts that they are pulling is contributing to the debate in any way at all. It actually takes attention away from the real issues because all that the general public are registering is milk on the floor, soup on a painting or random idiots glueing themselves to stuff. The media coverage doesn't lead to an enhanced understanding of the issues amongst the general public at all. We would get much more value from the voices of genuine experts talking about the real, shocking impact of climate change right now than we would from coverage of the shock tactics of a few attention-seeking protestors.

Personally, since the XR thugs were disrupting my public transport journeys a few years ago, I've tried to minimise the amount I recycle as my own kind of personal protest against the climate protestors. I've intentionally done other things to harm the environment too but I won't go into them here

This is one of the fucking stupidest things I've ever heard

TumbleFryer - you honestly think people aren't aware about climate change - it was being taught in schools in 80s - it's all over the media and had been for decades - I don't know anyone who isnt aware of global warming and our changing weather patterns.

I think people would like more practical suggestions and information about options like alternatives to gas boilers and less lecturing by people unwilling to make even minor changes in their own lifestyles.

I have to say I though it beyond stupid when Extinction Rebellion targeted electric buses and trains in poorer areas - and did make me think they actually knew very little about what they claimed to be raising awareness about - latest stunts with painting ect have most people focused on their behavior not the issues they claim to want to highlight.

But I expect OP will do whatever they want anyway.

The just stop oil are making me not care tbh. A lot of people are struggling a long. And the facts are there that unless the top dogs in the world stop polluting it aka not Britain, climate change won't change. I'd be more impressed if the just stop oil went out to China or even the USA to protest.

@CatJumperTwat - the decisions needed will be unpopular with the rich who hold the majority of political, financial and media power. Decisions could be made to bring benefit to those who are poorer, but as have seen from successive governments this will not happen. A CA would bring a better chance of this happening

OP activists are a complete utter joke. If your only thought to bring change is to join these blithering fools then go for it, but you achieve nothing and just piss the public off.

If you want change and you claim to have a degree in environmental science, then get a job in the sector and make a difference from within. If you don't want to do that then join your local political party and put yourself forward. Standing on the sidelines jeering and interfering are bloody idiots.

This I assure you is coming from some one who works in the environmental industry and also has a dh as a scientist who works for a major company. If you think protestors influence or change anything what so ever in our jobs or daily work your fooling yourself. protestors may give us a laugh or grumble over coffee but you certainly don't factor into any of our desitions or plannings.

Protestors are quick to claim victory's if we delay or change plans that coincidentally occur where protestors are but that's the bottom line they are coincidences.

Grow the hell up, got involved in the actual workings of society and business and stop acting like pathetic children, you change nothing.

I don’t think it’s an effective means of change, but recognize that people do believe it could work.

if you are going to risk arrest, you need to also accept punishment as well. So often we see people expecting charges not to be pursued or the punishment to be insignificant. If you know you are going to do something arrest worthy, you should own that decision and be prepared to accept a conviction and sentence as well.