To be disgusted that nurses may be striking for a 17% pay rise!

[justonemire]

Of course nurses should receive a fair salary and of course they have as much right as anyone else to ask for a pay rise. However to ask for a pay rise that is 5% above the current 12% inflation rate is just ridiculous and never going to be approved.

The average nurses salary is £35.600 and this would equate to a pay rise of £6.150.

Yes nurses do a great job but so do a lot of other key workers in the public sector who have only received 2%

The government simply cannot accept the nurses pay demands because if they do everyone else would go on strike for a similar deal. Where would it end.

Therefore the outcome is that people will not receive the proper level of care we are all paying taxes for. If there are strikes then The NHS will be run as if it is Christmas Day. God help us and our loved ones then.

There will be resulting misdiagnosis and deaths and where will the fault lie? Yes you can blame the government, Putin for invading Ukraine and pushing up food and energy costs, etc but I think we will also all blame the nursing profession too for asking for a completely unrealistic 17% pay rise.

Gary Stephenson, a former trader, who is alarmed at the rapid increase of wealth inequality between the super rich and the rest of the population and now doing videos explaining how this has happened did a good 15 min video on how covid added £400 billion to the wealth of the super rich.

@ganachee

Yes. I read an article by a tax lawyer/accountant who had previously made herself very rich making already very rich people even more rich by avoiding tax for them.

She was doing similar to this guy now.

Can't remember her name though

Schroedinger's inflation spiral. pay rises for the majority fuel inflation. Directing £2.5tn in wealth to the richest 1% doesn't [actually economically probably true in part but doesn't stop a singu,airty of contempt generated when millionaires tell poor people to take pay cuts after 12 years of austerity for the good of the nation that has shafted them for 12 years).

The Nhs money pit. Doesn’t matter how much money you throw at it, it will devour it and it will come back for more.

This claim does not stand up to scrutiny when you look at the funding for the NHS in the last couple of decades. Blair’s govt increased funding funded for the NHS after insufficient funding by Conservatives for the previous 18 years but unfortunately he used PFI which has turned out to be a costly mistake. Then the coalition and then Conservatives govts have been significantly underfunding it since 2010 giving the smallest annual increases to NHS funding, 1.1% and 2.3% respectively, between 2010 and 2018 since the inception of the NHS 75 years ago. Theresa May in 2018 and then Johnson pledged an annual 3.6% increase to the NHS budget. Before CoVid The Institute of Fiscal Studies said that increases of at least 4% a year on average are needed in order to meet the NHS’s needs and see any improvement in its services.

The Nhs money pit. Doesn’t matter how much money you throw at it, it will devour it and it will come back for more.

Also further to my comment above, in 2010 according to the Commonwealth Fund report the NHS ranked number 1 in healthcare globally. 12 years of Tory underfunding is destroying the NHS.

I think I know who you mean. Gary Stephenson interviewed her on his YouTube channel. Her name is Stephanie Brobbey.

Are you joking!! A band 5 earns just over £13 an hour for the first two years being quailified. Currently after a year/18 months you are considered "senior" in a lot of departments because of the terrible skill mix and are expected to run areas. I had a band 5 nurse on £13 an hour running a resus the other night with a 30 year old woman with an Exsanguinating PV haemorrhage, peri arrest, miscarrying. She almost died. Tell me now how dealing with this situation equates to being paid £13 an hour.

We have a costa coffee shop in our hospital advertising barista jobs for £14 an hour....

We are done. We cant go on putting patient safety at risk because we cant retain staff due to the amount of stress we are under daily.

That's her!

I'd love to hear how it's comparable to any other graduate job

It's always argued on higher earner threads how they absolutely deserve their high wages excuse they work so hard and it's so stressful.

Yet nurses are told suck it up buttercup?

Pffffffttt

Topgub · I would say that my son's grad job at 23k compared with a nursing role, in that they are both quite technical and require expertise in that field (as do a lot of grad roles).

No he hasnt stayed at 23k. And that was the main point of my thread - initial pay seems pretty competitive for a grad nurse (maybe even generous) but it doesnt seem to go up much thereafter to reflect added experience/responsibilities.

No he doesnt have to deal with things nurses do. He wouldnt want to and that is one of the reasons he never considered nursing. But nurses must have accepted and understood their role before they started training?

@dreamingofsun

Of course they do.

But you then can't compare other grad roles because they're not comparable.

I doubt your son is saving lives for his 23k.

You cant just remove the worst bits of the job and say oh well. They don't deserve better pay. Other roles start off at the same.

Other roles aren't doing what nurses are

Depends on the corp i guess, but they aren’t directly funded and wasting my taxes, and i can usually choose to pay someone else.

Few corporations take about a third of my taxes, although i guess the energy companies are working on that.

@Bard6817

Tax is a bill for service like any other.

If you think the govt are wasting your taxes, blame them

If we didn't have the nhs you'd have to pay more for private health care

Yabu. I support the nurse strike

Topgup - the HR and finance departments will compare roles and work out what the going rate is. companies/organisations will use it to set pay and use it when negotiating with the unions. They will use things like technical expertise, decision making, if someone has responsibility themselves or just carries out someone else's decisions etc.

And if you think that people who save lives should be paid the most then that totally changes the whole framework people are paid on. And you will see the revenue earning talent that pays for our public services move abroad.

@dreamingofsun Just curious, would you class a nurse as someone who has responsibility or just carries out someone else's decisions? (Please let tagged PP answer first)

Kimmy - to be honest i dont know. I think its probably a mix. For example on TV last night the nurse put a dressing on and then got the doctor to assess whether the patient had concussion. But I'm no expert and i think the pay ought to be assessed more scientifically than the 'oh nurses are so great they saved my aunt dolly' sort of comments on here.

@dreamingofsun

I think that might be bingo?

What is it about your sons role that makes it worth more than a nurses?

Holy shit 😂right, so Charlie off Casualty did X so let's base a nursing salary on that. Unbelievable. I can tell you're no expert, thanks for clarifying though.

I absolutely loathe this race to the bottom, self-centred mentality that is displayed in the OP and in so many people in this country now. The 'I'm on crap wages so everyone else should be too' ideology that completely deflects the responsibility for these problems away from those that caused and continue to perpetrate them.

topgun - starting pay for my son was actually 4k less than a nurse. which you could have worked out if you had read my comment. And if you had also read my comments you will have worked out that i was saying nurse's pay didnt appear to increase much as they became more experienced.

but lets get all emotional.......

Anyone as no-one seems to be reading my threads properly but jumping to their own conclusions i'm now off to do other things.....

No one has answered the question of how without a decent pay rise, how will we deal with the current nursing recruitment and retention crisis. What can be done to encourage nurses to stay in their jobs?
It's all well and good saying they shouldn't strike and they get enough, but that's obviously not the case or the NHS wouldn't have tens of thousands of unfilled vacancies and be hemorrhaging much-needed senior staff and expertise. The job is not attractive in its current state.
So for all those saying they shouldn't strike, I would be interested in how you suggest solving the issue.

@dreamingofsun

I did read your post.

You said he very quickly moved up from his starting wage so my comment stands

I'm not being emotional.

I'm being objective.

The parts of the nursing role you want to ignore have worth. We cant judg pretend they don't because society only values making very rich people more money.

If you can objectively tell me why your sons role deserves better pay then I'll listen

But I suspect you can't and that's why you're all of a sudden too busy.

Oh and your pint about revenue producers leaving, while predictable, is exactly what is happening now in nursing.

You seemed to be suggesting we couldn't change how higher earners are paid or they'd leave?

But we can some how not pay nurses more and expect them to stay?

How does that logic work?

@Topgub nurse do not have the most important job in the world, you know! For all you know @dreamingofsun’s son has an equally important job!