To think the bank should refund us

[broccolibush]

I noticed a transaction on my bank account that wasn’t authorised by either DH or me - for nearly £1,000 to a taxi company in South America - so called the bank to report it as a fraudulent transaction and ask for the money to be returned. It was a debit card payment.

We don’t spend using debit cards on the account (do day to day spending on credit cards and clear the balance every month) and we’re in the UK not in South America. The bank have said that the payment was made using chip and pin and have refused to accept it was fraudulent as the card is still in our possession, albeit many thousands of miles from where the transaction was made.

AIBU to think that there is no way a debit card in the UK could have been legitimately used for a chip and pin transaction in South America and that as a result refusing to accept this as fraud because the card is in our possession is insane? Has anyone else been in a similar situation and found a way to get their money back? I don’t fancy being £1k down to a criminal aided by the bank.

Have they recorded it as a formal complaint OP? They need to provide you with a formal response within 15 days, rejecting the complaint and explaining their reasons for doing so, along with Ombudsman details. The Ombudsman route will take ages though - they have a massive backlog. If you do have to go that route, and the Ombudsman finds in your favour, they will award 8% interest for the time that money was not in your account.

However, the FCA have said that banks can't just say that use of your card or PIN means you authorised the payment. If they haven't formally rejected your complaint yet, I would escalate it - they have to pay the Ombudsman for every case so maybe someone else will see sense.

Thanks for the link @SerenaTee - that's pretty much what I'd read from other sources. They have to refund me unless they can prove it's not fraud. They are banking on me not knowing this, which makes them horrible, horrible people.

I've spent hours going round in circles this week to get answers, being told something different every time, finally getting the response today that was written on 10 November! Which makes me even more annoyed with them.

Anyway, I have sent it to the ombudsman now so hopefully they will start their slow wheels turning, or maybe the bank will have a change of heart when they realise I'm not going away.

The abroad thing really bugs me - we don't use our cards abroad as we have a currency card with another provider. Neither of us has ever made a debit card payment outside the UK and we haven't even put our debit cards in a cashpoint abroad since 2012ish. So whilst it's not the spending pattern of a fraudster (allegedly) it's not my spending pattern either - and they have 30 years of history to check for me!!

Ah sorry, I have just seen that your original post was 6 November.
Good luck!

When I had my card cloned (best guess as to how they got my details) the bank were satisfied that the spending didn't fit with my spending profile so accepted the transaction as fraud and sorted it. This was Lloyds bank who I think are otherwise inept...but they way they handled this made me stay as a customer.

Hope you get some traction with the ombudsman. £1k isn't an amount most people can just wave goodbye to (even if you could, you shouldn't have to!).

Go to the ombudsman or at least tell the bank you will be ad they get charged for each complaint even if you’ve in their favour.

If you are switching banks check out Narrin Lewis’ site and see which ones give cashback, DH just got £200 for switching to Nationwide. I am with Natiobwide already and really rate them. They have a good east to use app and never had an issue (our mortgage is with them and I quite r hit seeing the balance decrease). Quidco might also have cashback deals for switching. I got an extra £70 from them in top of the normal switching fee. Nationwide switching was so easy.

Sorry @broccolibush . I'm peacemaking as this thread has useful information.

I'm helping a family member who has had the exact same problem with HSBC. They are claiming my family member has acted with gross negligence because the card is still in thier possession.

@broccolibush many banks would contact the customer if a spend like that comes up to check it's genuine.
I'm with Halifax/Bank of Scotland and they would send a text before authorising payment. As you say, it's abroad and not your spending pattern. Your bank's algorithm failed here

Which bank is this?

port in spain?

Does anyone bank with anyone nice

first direct have an excellent reputation and Atom bank has opened with their previous CEO at the helm - offering good rates of interest on their bonds to boot

As someone who works for a bank, when you called and someone said it’s not the typical fraud pattern that will just be an agent on the phone, they could be wrong, ie just said some random crap to shut you up
call fraud services again and explain that your card has clearly been cloned, you’re in the UK and it’s that simple. You need to file a complaint before you take it to FOS. They have an 8 week time to investigate complaints.

many banks would contact the customer if a spend like that comes up to check it's genuine
This happened to us. Our joint credit card was used to try to book a flight to the US. The fraud department rang and I said it certainly wasn't us, and they stopped the transaction.
(A short time later, DH came in from our home office, and ranted about how he'd not been able to book a flight to the US for his dad, as the transaction was stopped... 😳)

The not typical fraud pattern is in the formal response to our complaint so it's not someone who doesn't know better fobbing me off. I've told them the payment wasn't made by us, offered proof of us being in the UK (including a contactless payment made by the same card in the UK just minutes after this big overseas transaction) but they're not interested. I can't even get past the initial call handlers in the fraud team - and was only given the fraud team number today!

The bank is one mostly taxpayer owned since 2008.

Oops @Gastonia

The galling/funny thing @Gastonia is my credit card company did just that with me this week because I made an unusual purchase. It's what we expect and normally what happens!

My Mum bought me a Bruce Springsteen ticket for my birthday/Christmas present... She gave me her card to pay... There were ten thousand in front of me... When I eventually got to pay Mum's card was refused three times and I lost my ticket... Cue floods of tears from me... I then had to go through the whole process again with my card and got my ticket.
Clearly my Mum's bank didn't think an 86 year old woman should be going to see The Boss in concert!!!

I hope the bank reverses course quickly, as they are completely in the wrong under your described scenario.

Shockingly poor customer service.

Yes, that is very galling! Hope you get a refund.

All calls are recorded. Do a subject access request and tell the bank you want a copy of the voice recording of all the calls you have made about this fraudulent transaction. This will be good evidence to show the Ombudsman that the bank is not dealing with your complaints properly.

You can only file a dd indemnity if it is a dd. In this case it is not, it is a debit card txn.

I once had a similar issue back in the days when credit card slips were those things with carbon paper. When I queried the payment they sent me a copy of the counterfoil with an incredibly snotty letter saying if I still contended this was a fraud I would have to explain how come someone else had got hold of my card. But when I looked at the counterfoil, it was immediately obvious that it was neither my name nor my signature, and the number was one digit out. I sent them a snotty letter explaining that and borrowed their phraseology to say I needed their explanation as to how come they refused to acknowledge the error when it was so obvious. I never did get a reply, though they refunded the money.

Get a mobile banking app and turn on payment notifications. Every transaction gets notified on my phone. I know when my son has bought a movie on Amazon or bought something on Google play or anything else. It's very reassuring.

That's shocking OP. I've had fraudulent transactions on my card more than once and on some occasions the bank has rung me suspecting fraud before i knew an attempt had been made. On all occasions the card was in my possession - once someone tried to buy a sofa in John Lewis in London for £1K and it was blocked because I don't live anywhere near london and have no spending pattern there.

I had an odd one with HSBC, where they blocked two transactions to buy designer clothing online (obviously knew I was too much of a middle aged frump for that!) but when we checked other recent transactions they hadn't queried one for £1400 worth of ice-cream!!! I got the mobile banking app after that.

What bank is this? I had this with HSBC and it was dealt with immediately. My card was used in New York.

First Direct alerted us to some fraudulent activity on our account years ago. DH and I both had our cards in our possession but FD suggested either they'd been cloned (petrol stations were high on the list of culprits) or one of us had bought something online from a site with poor security controls. There was no question that they wouldn't reimburse us.

We've been with FD for 30 years and wouldn't bank elsewhere.