I believe that the minimum wage should be enough to enable a working couple to feed and clothe a family of four and keep a roof over their heads.

[Mamarsupial]

I don’t think I am BU for a moment, interested to see how many agree with me.

Yanbu. Of course mw should be enough to live a reasonable life on.
Imho if companies can afford to have chains across the uk they can afford to pay a living wage without hiking up their prices. Minimum wage should be for small businesses/start ups but instead of the employee going away to claim uc the employer should have to claim the difference between minimum wage and living wage from the government and pay it to their employee. That way the onus is on the company to make enough profit that they eventually can pay a living wage with government help.

You are not being unreasonable

Just said the same thing on the other thread.

The economy would get a boost, because people are more productive and businesses take smarter risks when everyone isn’t terrified.

I earn well, and have a business, so I am (at least for now) not in a difficult situation.

So who are the 26% who think a couple that are both working shouldnt expect to have their basic needs for food, clothes and shelter met?

But you currently can do exactly that, can't you? The fact is that there are enough people who need jobs that people with experience and skills sometimes do, still, end up working for minimum wage.

It's also the case that, if you are looking at a manual job, you may find employers prefer someone younger who still has the stamina to do the work.

Ffs. Let them eat cake. As long as they're there to provide you with the shit you need up there on your lofty perch.

Yes, in public housing.

The fact you think this is weird is not because it’s weird but because this country is fucked up. We can absolutely afford this.

You are misrepresenting the OP somewhat.

It's not a race to the bottom though is it? Why are people happy to go back in time?

I wish I didn't have to run a sodding car to be honest. I'd really rather not. I don't love driving, I don't love paying for it and I'd be fitter if I walked to work. However, I can't. Because it's too far away. Work often isn't local anymore. The bus would take me 1hr 20 instead of a 16 min drive and I couldn't physically get from the school drop off to work in time. I'm sure many people would love to work in walking distance of home.

Many people also don't have TV subscriptions, new phones and dishwashers. And those that do will be getting rid or not using them because they can't afford it any more.

Minimum wage should be for new entrants and younger people not propel trying to support 4 children. You should aim to move up and send more not stay on minimum wage and expect it to keep up with increasing personal commitments.

Seriously, comparing working class life last century to working class life today is insane. You are looking back on a time that never existed. 50 years ago in working class areas like Glasgow and London people lived in grotty tiny damp houses and flats with no heating. This was working class life. The comfortable suburban lifestyles you are describing were considered aspirational and middle class. The preserve of accountants and clerks. In todays’ money it equates to a banker or business owner. Have you seen pics of kids from the 50s? Like rakes. No double glazing. No wardrobes full of clothes. No inside toilets for many. No washing machine or telephone. That was life back then for the vast majority. Right up into the seventies and eighties for many.

Not 4 children, 2 children, four people in total. Sorry that wasn’t very clear of me.

And how do you aim to move up exactly?

I think we'd all like to know this magical moving up system.

Not sure that giving everyone a massive pay rise is the answer as it will then make inflation and house prices higher.

I think that the housing crisis needs sorting out... no one is dealing with this .

Rental prices are ridiculous and we have allowed this nonsensical situation to happen.
If house prices/rental prices were properly regulated then we wouldn't need strike action/over the top pay demands.

Too many people have become landlords and are charging as much as they can get away with yet are providing as little as they can get away with .
It makes my blood boil.

Councils should have sufficient housing stock to meet the demands of its residents who are unable to get mortgages.
I don't understand how we now have rental properties that cost twice as much as mortgage payments.

Yes but it shouldn't be subsidised at all by the government other than child benefit.

I've said this for ages, in work benefits claimed by the company and paid to the employee by the company - and similar rules apply -

More than £X amount in profit a year? No state top up, you pay the wage and cut your business cloth accordingly. And it's illegal not to pay it. Sanctions for not paying it or for not declaring things correctly or in time. Prosecution for fraud, hiding profits etc.

And for those who think min wage employees don't deserve a standard above surviving, tipping into not surviving as things go up - I take it you never use or rely on those types of services then? Don't expect good service when you shop or go out? Don't expect children, elderly and vulnerable members of society to be looked after properly? I mean after all they're not worth much or contributing much right so a lack of them or a drop in standard isn't going to matter at all is it? Seeing as they're so unimportant?

I agree that two people in MW should be able to, or a single parent on MW.

I think it would be unreasonable to expect to be able to support another adult on one MW, although of course people were able to in the past.

And yes I mean not just at survival level but a reasonable quality of life

If minimum wage is to enable a family of four to live in central London, the same family in Barnsley or somewhere will be able to afford a mansion. And frankly there'd be no point in anyone in parts of the north aspiring to anything other than a minimum wage job. Why would you?

The question in the OP is ridiculously simplistic.

Address house prices and many could
Rents are huge , mortgages going up and many can not get one, houses silly money

Yanbu. In the early 80's my parents bought a 3 bed mid terrace on my dad's wages alone. I don't know how much he earnt (I asked, he can't remember) but as he left school at 15 with only one CSE I doubt that he earnt a great deal. Was it easy for them? Good grief no. Did they have to choose between heating and eating? No, or at least we were always fed and were never cold so I assume not. There was one Christmas where dinner was going to be a cheese sandwich (until dad won money on something called the pools, so we had a roast dinner after all) but there was food. Toys and clothes were always second hand sure, but it was possible to pay the bills. My dad smoked like a chimney too (again, I don't know how much it costs to smoke 40 a day but I would hazard a guess that it's on a par with Sky or a new phone or whatever it is that often gets blamed for people not being able to support themselves)

I think it's possible in some areas where there is council housing, but sadly not the case everywhere.

Comparing to 50 years ago is not something I have done and I don’t think it’s very helpful really as we live in a different world now.

There were many more opportunities for work within walking distance and the lack of technology meant that the world moved at a slower pace. There were people to help you out with almost anything no further than the highstreet and anyone else you needed was in the phone book. Children could find others to play and make friends with by literally stepping out of the door.

Today technology is embedded into almost every aspect of life and living without it is difficult time-consuming and isolating.

Quite.

It’s more of a statement than a question.
I agree it’s impossible the way things are now.
The inequality and lack of distribution of wealth throughout the country is ridiculous.
It is a belief (and if I were a politician, it would be an objective) that I stand by nevertheless.

Yes exactly this. Benefit top ups just subsidise employers - including many large retail chains etc - to pay shit wages to their frontline staff - and let them get away with it.

Glad to see others agreeing- it's just not as simple as raising wages - which then causes other issues - although I agree with a minimum wage of £11 an hour- it's also about having an infrastructure that enables people to have a modest but secure lifestyle on that kind if money- even with children , wherever you are in the country- let's be honest the only huge differential in costs between living in say Guildford or living in Leeds is housing- most other costs are pretty similar. If you build large volumes of good social housing or even part buys that are suitable for families in areas of demand- you would kill off a lot of vastly overpriced private rentals, thereby less need to subsidise via housing benefit .