I believe that the minimum wage should be enough to enable a working couple to feed and clothe a family of four and keep a roof over their heads.

[Mamarsupial]

I don’t think I am BU for a moment, interested to see how many agree with me.

And people on low incomes also had their benefits of the day, its not a new thing that people on the low incomes have to claim benefits as well

There are areas of the country where two people working full time on MW can afford all those things, their rent and child care if needed, its much easier if children are school age of course, but there ar also places in the country where its impossible

Its also possible and easier in social housing. There was far far more social housing in the past than there is now. We need a huge national building programme of social housing

I don’t think it’s doable either, but I think it should be. I am in favour of a higher minimum wage.

And would be more than £18 if NMW went up.

At my school before and after school care for one child is 125 per week. So two children, 250 per week. Then there are over 14 weeks a year of holidays and inset days, so full time childcare for those weeks parents can’t cover with annual leave.

Baby school?

… or lower housing / childcare costs. One of these three things.

I agree. Housing prices have gone seriously awry.

In the 1960s my DGF bought a 3 bedroomed semi in a decent area. He was able to support his family on his wage alone - he was an engineer at Findus; he fixed the fish finger machine.

No way in a million years could a blue collar worker provide for a family alone nowadays.

Didn't you say support a basic lifestyle?

Home, warmth, healthy food?

Have you changed your mind?

So what figure do you have in mind? Where in the country are this family? Are they in central london (high housing costs, low transport costs), rural (possibly cheaper housing, expensive transport). Is it a 2 bed or 3? If it's a two bed are teenage opposite sex siblings sharing a room? If the children are young who is providing childcare and what is the cost? So many variables

@NoDairyNoProblem
we have a huge household income and we don’t have a window cleaner and my DCs halloween costume was a very old (threadbare) sheet with 2 holes cut for eyes…..3 years in a row. Neither of those are even vaguely essential.

Op if you answer this, you'll just get told you're wrong and asked why you think you get to decide. She'll then deny everything she's ever said and pretend not to understand.

I work a 40 hour week just above minimum wage. I earn approximately £1300 a month. My husband works a 50 hour week and earns approximately £2300 per month. With childcare costs to enable us both to work, plus general living expenses, funding 2 old cars to get us about and paying a mortgage, we are just keeping our heads above water. It’s utterly ridiculous. And I’m in an extremely lucky situation of being an apprentice on minimum wage for my age, rather than minimum wage for an apprentice which is just over £4.50 per hour I believe.

I was working 2 part time jobs previously but the tax situation was awful. I was paying more tax than I should have been, regardless of HMRCs standpoint on it. I gave up one to do more hours at the other and although I’m better off, it’s not by much. I’m considering a part time job on top of my full time one, and so is DH, although god knows how much more of that will be eaten up by further childcare costs. I can’t see a light at the end of the tunnel.

2 adults working full time on minimum wage should absolutely be able to afford to live comfortably but I can’t see a way to make that happen. If wages go up, costs will go up, and we’ll all be back at square one with no end in sight where everything continually rises, pricing out those on minimum wage again.

I agree OP. Topping up with universal credit just means tax payers are subsidising huge companies.

All companies over a certain size should pay a wage you can actually live on. Smaller companies could be given subsidies in order to do so.

Or not topped up. I'm single, no DC and the min wage (or just above) is a struggle to pay all the bills now with how much everything has gone up
19k to pay for household bills, mortgage, car insurance plus everything else is tough. I do get 25% off council tax...

Hmm not sure.

Because young inexperienced people need to start somewhere, and if you can pay minimum wage & get either an older person with 10 years work experience, or an 18 year old looking for their first job, you will never ever hire the latter.

Minimum wage is the bare minimum, ie reflecting simply time, no skills, experience etc. Its a bit sad to think that someone could have been working for several years and not acquired any skills or experience such that they are worth a little more than a school leaver going for their first job.

Housing has a lot to do with this. My parents were both from large families with both grandfathers working. Luxuries might have been short supply but everyone was fed and clothed and there were occasional holidays. Both my parents went to grammar school along with some of their siblings. They were not poverty stricken. Expectations have changed though. I noticed from a list above things like cars, Halloween, school lunches, trips, dress up days, activities etc. None of this would have happened. Maybe Scouts. There would have been simple birthday and xmas gifts. Life has moved on. What is normal - central heating, reliable hot water, TV, phones etc are things that no one ever dreamed of in the past, but these things are equally not luxuries these days, but part of 21st century life. The idea that some think people should manage without them is just cruel.

27% of people don’t think that two people working full-time deserve to have some kind of normal life or to be able to have children. What utter fuckers, I hope you all get what you deserve.

Yes, this is what I was trying to articulate earlier

I stand by my original post.

I would be thoroughly supportive of a nmw that provided enough for an annual holiday, the children to have a room each and some birthday presents.

But that’s not a hill I’m going to die on, if you want to pin me down over details.

The position that I am defending here is that the minimum wage should be enough to provide adequate housing, food, clothing and necessary childcare for an average sized family.

Certain jobs never pay much more than the minimum and never have (no matter what or how minimum levels of wages were in the past)

Cleaners, care takers, dinner ladies, carers, usually some social care positions, some admin positions, etc etc

Thats not because they havent worked their way up, its because thats their job and thats what it pays

They are some of our most valuable positions

It's all very well saying you don't want to be pinned down over details but without detail it's a meaningless statement. i would like for everyone to have Universal basic income that affords them all of life necessities but without detail it's meaningless.

Why is it meaningless? Seems quite clear to me. Those who are asking for more detail are just looking for an excuse to say no.

Rather than minimum wage being increased we should be arguing for all these roles to be valued and rewarded much more highly. Minimum wage should be exactly that, a minimum, not a basic benchmark for lots of jobs.

Bellac but the wages for those jobs stay low because people are willing to take those jobs despite the poor pay.

Possibly because
a) they have a high earner partner topping up the family income
b) they have benefits topping them up
c) they don't require many skills or experience so young people who haven't yet acquired any skills/experience can do them

Leaving aside disability, people should gain skills and experience that enable them to be more productive and earn more. To me its an odd assumption that two people at say, age 28 should have acquired no skills/experience in 10 years leaving school so as to be worth more in the labour market.

I do think childcare costs are a huge issue though. Childcare needs to be much more heavily subsidised.