to be p****d off that having another child would throw us into poverty

[chocolatemummy]

My dd is 4 now and I was never sure about having another one, found the whole experience fluctuated me from madness to untopia and very stressful.
Now, I realize that I actually think I could quite like to have another one in a couple of years sors so before I'm too old. For me, for my dd who would love it I know and my dh who loves children.
I just know that having one child has thrown us into debt and put massive strain on our relationship because of money worries and we are so looking forward to her starting school and no more nursery fees!
To have another would surely push us over the edge and I resent that

ssd - OP said you have to have 50K to have children and a "decent lifestyle".

ah

I think her idea of "throw us into poverty" is unrealistic then

second child V fancy car and holidays

is that it then?

From a quick browse, the accepted definition of poverty is less than 60% of the national average income. So in Scotland for example, that would be an annual income of £7000.

Is that 50k before tax?

DP (sole wage earner) earns £50+ BEFORE tax (so basically half that amount as the taxman takes half of it!! ) and we have 4 DC therefore extra dependants more living costs and are not particuarily 'well off' as the OP might think however if DP earned this and we only had 1 child we would be better off financially because we didn't have the others, but this is not something we have ever considered we just wanted 4 DC whatever the cost - and have been lucky enough to be able to have them

Your lucky you haven't been flamed yet by those who are desperately ttc another DC no matter what cost......

sprogger - then phrases like "skint", "struggle", "keep afloat" and "lack of money" should really have been avoided too.

I think its all relative really....even if you earn lots of money you may have bigger overheads....its really about assessing what you want, making any changes if necessary and standing by that decision.

my thought is children are only as expensive as you make them. Everything could be second hand and its easy to make decent filling low cost meals.
And we get lots of financial help in this country. Child tax credits didn't exist 10 years ago when I had my first 3 kids and we were on 14K. I'm still boggling as to why we get all this money for free. Plus child benefit.
Lot more than the half the worlds population who live on less than $2 a day.

bigger overheads! When my friends son won a scholarship to a posh school (she's on benefits) they were refused the bursery that would have meant he could actually go (scholarship only paid half) because it was awarded to another family who lived in the posh part of town. On questioning this, was told by the school that rich poeple have higher commitments like nannies and gardeners and suchlike.
ahem. My heart doth bleed.

I didn't know tax took 50%. Thought the 40% rate only kicked in on anything about £34K and its was 23% of anything below that?

tax + nat insu make it around 50% methinks.

my brother put it the best recently. You can always make money. you cant always have children.

if you want another - you will find a way to make it work.

Yes thats what i meant by 'half of it' the 40% tax plus NI - i'm not moaning about our financial situation btw (our choices, our spending, we deal with it) just about the taxman!

Choices - exactly sparkles.

I'm crap with money, I'm just thinking if I can manage then anyone can. Not judging/being unfair - just common sense really.

Plus OP said their mortgage costs were reasonable and they were not mortgaged up to the hilt.

i'm in a kinda similar situation, chocolatemummy. DS is 4 and his nursery fees are £825 per month and our mortgage for an ex council 3 bed house is over a grand per month. we don't have huge debts or massive money worries but we certainly don't have fancy holidays, car is 2nd hand, social life is hardly sparkling and most clothes bought at tescos. so if you get my drift, we're not in poverty but not exactly living it up either. we don't get any benefits other than child benefit and we both work full time. i'm not complaining, it's the lifestyle i chose and i'm glad i don't have huge debts other than the mortgage. however, the nursery fees are a killer. nursery fees for a baby would be over a grand. it's a lot of money if you add DS's wraparound care after school and in the holidays. there's not a lot of 'slack' in our budget so money is a consideration for us too. not worried about any other costs associated with having a baby, maternity leave pay is good where i work, have all the 'stuff' from when DS was born and baby clothes can be inherited or are pretty cheap from tescos etc, it's just the fees, they're a helluva lot! can't wait til DS is at school, then we'll be rich!but on the flipside i feel i've been wishing his babyhood away so i can bung him in school

wow thanskyou all for keeping the thread going inmy absense, nice to know I am not alone. Probably over did it with the £50K thing, its just that I was living down in the south east when I had my dd and most of our friends were on that and enjoying life, where as were were not even on that combined and just getting deeper and deeper into debt.
I think the getting made redundant thing did two things to us- 1. It really showed us just how easy and quick it is to go under-or almost. As it was me who lost my job we had to part pay the mortgage and childcare etc using overdraft and credit cards which is why we are now paying off lots of debt.
and 2. It made us sell up and move up to the midlands and its the best thing we did. We are a lot better off here, out of the souoth east rat race (as much as possible) I guess thats whats made me so cautious.
BUT I also think I am maybe a bit materialistic and you lot have shown me that if I really wanted another child, I could, it would be harder but worth it.

Glad you're feeling a bit better about things, Chocolatemummy

well I think I got a bit of a slating from some and some sound advice from others but on the whole, I feel better about it yes.

Its hard to know what to sya on here isnt it, you always end up upsetting somebody somewhere, I guess its the old thing that, 'There is always someone worse off than you!'

Sorry chocmummy, don't mean to be rude and you don't have to answer to me but why did you get into debt paying childcare fees when you were made redundant-not working I presume. Sorry again if I got the wrong end of the stick, just seems a waste of money

because it was difficult to get a nursery place near to me in the first place and I thought, if I take her out of the nursery, and then get a job in a few weeks or couple of months then I'd be stuck with no childcare, catch 22 isn't it

would a nanny/au pair combo work out cheaper than 2 lots of childcare. au pairs are about 55 pound a week for 25 hours childcare but obviously you would need a spare room and nannys about 7 pound an hour - so 3.50 an hour per child which is cheaper than most cms/nurseries. have you considered a cm - it might be cheaper than nursery?

God, I misread the OP and thought you had 4 children already! Bloody hell.

Yes, I have one DS and having a second would mean things would be extremely tight. DH is on a good salary too so it's the fact that mortgage/bills etc take 70% of his salary... grrr

you have my sympathy!