The state of the NHS right now is terrifying

[Faciadipasta]

I am feeling genuinely scared for us as a country health care wise. I was reading today about a chap who died of internal bleeding while his family were kept on hold to 999 for 10 minutes as nobody even answered the phone.
Then there are all the people who die while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, because they are all lined up.outside the hospitals unable to offload their patients.
People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented if they'd been seen. Waits at A and E are enormous and they don't even have enough chairs so people with serious injuries or illnesses are having to just sit on the floors in the corridors.
We're actually starting to feel like one of those warzone countries that you see on the news and it is scaring me shitless.
I mean even in the US you wouldn't just be left to die because there was nobody to answer the phone although admittedly you'd probably end up bankrupt for paying back the care, but at least you wouldn't be dead!
I personally feel like we have no care, no safety net. And it's scary.
Will it get better? What can be done?

I have very good friends who work in A and E.
They say not just those in dire need that use A and E especially over the weekends, drugs, drunk, fighting.
I asked why they are treated as self-inflicted, the reply was all have to be treated.
So old lady on a trolley seriously ill, but stable, young lady throwing up all over the corridor, who gets priority? the girl throwing up in case she chokes!
A and E has been abused for years now, its needs a total overhaul.
Such a HUGE job to do, no good just throwing more money at it.
A similar to France system could work, in my opinion, pay via work and government contributions, you pay for most (Not all) medications as the drugs are a huge part of the costs, those who come into the country HAVE to pay until they have paid into the system for however many years, but there would be outrage in this country if we tried to do this, but it would stop time wasters.
I personally know people who have paracetamol on prescription this is SO wrong on so many levels, they are cheap enough to buy, small things add up.

Some say the NHS is mis-managed. Do those people work in the NHS? Are they seeing it from the inside and saying that, or saying it from the outside?

I work in the system and see it from the inside.

While the higher echelons such as commissioning arrangements, NHS England etc, keep having to re-organise every few years, the frontline services press on with trying to deliver the best care possible, in innovative and money-saving ways.

We try to keep people out of hospital, discharge inpatients at the earliest safe opportunity, increase day surgery provision to tackle waiting lists and so on, but it's never enough.

People who can't get a GP appointment end up at A&E.
People who need ongoing support at home can't get social care support so they remain as an inpatient longer than necessary.
Your local acute hospital trust is squeezed in between those two failings and as a result, is falling short.

But which one ends up on the ten o'clock news? The one with all the ambulances queued up outside.

Before you ask, I've worked in the NHS under Labour and under Conservative, so I have seen a broad range of funding and policy played out.

A friend of mine slashed her wrists recently and waited 4 hours in A and E. She's left the country now and counts herself lucky to be able to do so.

Well in my case because I'm ill. I'm too ill to get up at 8:00 am and get the house phone and the mobile on constant redial in the hope that maybe an hour later one of them will be answered and I will be told all appointments have gone. That is the only way I could get an NHS appointment since covid. Not that I have EVER managed. Extremely fortunately I can afford a private GP. I am an NHS manager as well.

People also forget that the nhs is expected to fix all of societies problems.

Most caused by tory govt policy and austerity

Poverty

Mh

Drug use

DV

Child abuse

Elderly care

Obesity

Cosmetic surgery

Maternity/ivf

Got a problem? Oh the nhs will fix it for you for free

I'm a GP and agree it's failing. If I refer someone, the wait can be up to 2 years for certain specialities. It feels awful to have to explain this to patients.
Most of my friends and colleagues are looking for a way out of GP as it's unsustainable. And there's so much GP bashing in the press (and on this thread already) that it doesn't feel worth it at all. It's total moral injury as we know what a good service looks like but are unable to deliver it.

Your colleagues should consider a move to ireland. I know 2 GPs that have moved from the UK to Ireland in the past few years. Both on €250k+ a year, they live rurally so both bought large houses for less than a years wage, it's a highly respected profession here very little GP bashing. We need GPs so they had their pick of jobs. Both are really glad they moved here and have a great quality of life for their families.

That was not my experience at all with a very seriously one year old who could not breathe, we were forced to provide all paperwork before they even looked at her!!! So no, they do not respond humanly and certainly didn't when we needed them. BTW we had the insurance, but it look so long to get it all approved, meanwhile my baby was gasping for breath on the floor of the hospital, they didn;t even move her to a bed whilst it was being sorted out. It was BRUTAL and we won't go back after that.

I can't believe you have come on here to try and poach doctors! Maybe they won't want to live in backwater? There are many reasons to choose a place to live, lifestyle etc.

When it works as it should it’s wonderful.
Three weeks ago we had a medical emergency in the family, 7 year old showing the four T’s symptoms of diabetes. Thirst, toilet, tired, thinner. Her mum got an OOH appointment as she was worried, the OOH doctor was worried too, sent her to A&E, she’d phoned ahead to tell the hospital so when they arrived someone was waiting for her, admitted straight her to resus, diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes, sent to critical care as her body was in DKA. This is when dangerous levels of ketones are in the body. She was kept in Critical care until she was stable and then spent five nights on the Childrens ward. This is how it should be for everyone in need of treatment. Going forward our little Warrior is going to have a lifetime of hospital appointments, a lifetime of medication, her little life has changed forever.

The Government can always find money for its pet projects, the NHS isn’t one of them.

Anecdotal obviously and will be different for everyone but I had to take DP to A&E yesterday and he was seen promptly (less than 30 minutes after arriving) and dealt with efficiently in terms of monitoring and administration of pain relief and other medication. We did have to wait four hours for them to find him a bed to admit him to but overall I thought the service was great.

What did stand out to was in the time we were waiting in A&E two separate incidents of people hurling verbal abuse loudly and aggressively at the staff and security having to be called to remove them (things like "I pay my taxes" "I pay your wages" "I want to be seen NOW" "you're all useless ***s" and physically squaring up to them etc...) and another handful of people angrily admonishing staff for how long they had been waiting.

It isn't a job I would want to do under the current circumstances.

Give it a go. I even had a Saturday f2f appointment for dc who needed antibiotics, we got it within a couple of hours - not my practice that time though the new one in ED

@bigdecisionstomake if you don't mind me asking - which area of the country are you in?
Honestly in A and E near me you'd have been unlikely to have even been seen by the triage nurse within 30 minutes.
While I'm very glad obviously that things are working well in some places, on the other hand it does make some people think that there isn't actually a problem, just because there isn't one near them.
People.like the PP who called me 'hysterical'

@MarshaBradyo that is bloody fantastic. Unfortunately there are only 2 surgeries which we are in catchment for. The one we're at is obviously terrible. I gave the forms for the other one but the opening hours are a lot less. They d 4 full days and a half day so I just can't really believe it will be easier to be seen there than the one we're at. I guess it can't be much worse though so maybe I should just have a try.

@PolaDeVeboise
One of the major problems is how it's run - it's a joke. The level of 'sickness' is off the scale. Also, you still get paid 'shift' and various other allowances when you are off ill. It heavily relies on 'bank' nurses that cost an absolute fortune. Why go fur an 'official' NHS job, when you can get paid the same for 2 day's work? The truth is, A LOT is staff know how to play the system like a fiddle and it's haemorrhaging money. It needs to be run like a business.

absolutely disagree with you. One of the main issues with the NHS and other public services is that a ‘business’ model was applied - the result is a huge excess of managers (many if not most without any background in the area e.g nursing, social care that they are managing) and less staff on the ground. Added to that outsourcing of everything from cleaning to catering - absolute madness, you end up paying more and getting less. Privatisation and the ‘business model’ is not the answer, it is actually the reason we are where we are now.

the welfare state as it exists is NOT sustainable - because it has been dismantled, piece by piece, by the tories and ‘new’ labour. I believe in the welfare state, I believe that it could work again - but i also believe that the political will isn’t there to dismantle the monster they have created and go back to basics. Because that is what would be needed - everything from the benefits system to housing to social care to the nhs and everything in between would need to be completely reinvented. None of it can be ‘fixed’ in isolation, the welfare state is a system.

The NHS is still pretty shit hot in acute cases: a friend who has recently had cancer get seen very quickly. But for 'chronic', day to day care for ordinary stuff its almost inaccessible to ordinary working folk in many parts of the country. And if we want a healthier population overall, this is the stuff which matters.

All of this is anectata, but arguing that because at its best it works well in certain areas in certain acute cases doesn't mean that the problems for other service users aren't real.

I also think its unhelpful when people attribute criticism of the service to 'NHS bashing'. Very few people on this thread (or indeed in the country) are ideologically opposed to the NHS. But while people do understand the NHS is overstretched and have great respect for individual HCPs, we're not helping ourselves by not admitting that it doesn't work properly for large swathes of the population.

None of this is actually the case in my experience (NHS worker).

These narratives & others like them on in this thread (misuse of A&E, demonising the obese & smokers etc, demonising NHS staff) are just convenient & simplistic diversions that get people blaming each other for the shocking consequences of years of Conservative government & underfunding.

Brace yourselves because I can’t see how it’s not going to get worse unless we as a society decide to make some dramatic changes to prioritise our health and social care system.

Investment needs to be made in primary care, not acute care.

A stitch in time saves nine.
We have gaping holes now (sometimes literally!) as a result of a lack of accessible primary care i.e. GP appointments.

Absolutely true!

But that is your area. Posters are giving examples in other areas and it’s not quite as good unless they are lying,

Well if moving overseas has cured all of her issues, why on earth didn't she do that rather than slash her wrists? Clearly it was not such a terrible emergency as she is still here.

My husband started having seizures in Aug. Ended with 2 within 10 hours so now on anti seizure meds for life. 1st A&E trip was a standard referral to seizure clinic this was upgraded to urgent referral on 2nd admittance to A&E. Chased it up couple of weeks ago and waiting time is 80 weeks!! We live rurally and he's self employed but now can't drive for minimum 12 months, so he's had to close his business and claim benefits.

He's now showing classic symptoms of depression....

I'm getting so sick of all these threads.
WTF did people expect if they kept voting Tory?
12 years of Tory rule and is any public service not is crisis?
This is what they do! Have the Tories ever left the NHS in a better position when they left office than when they arrived? How can people not know that. If you vote Tory you have absolutely no right to whinge when you're lying on the floor waiting 10 hours for an ambulance.
I don't blame the government, I blame the people who voted for them.

That’s not true stop lying, and leave the US out of this, let us deal specifically with our issue with the NHS.

Lovely.

Absolutely, & you said it so much better than me!