The state of the NHS right now is terrifying

[Faciadipasta]

I am feeling genuinely scared for us as a country health care wise. I was reading today about a chap who died of internal bleeding while his family were kept on hold to 999 for 10 minutes as nobody even answered the phone.
Then there are all the people who die while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, because they are all lined up.outside the hospitals unable to offload their patients.
People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented if they'd been seen. Waits at A and E are enormous and they don't even have enough chairs so people with serious injuries or illnesses are having to just sit on the floors in the corridors.
We're actually starting to feel like one of those warzone countries that you see on the news and it is scaring me shitless.
I mean even in the US you wouldn't just be left to die because there was nobody to answer the phone although admittedly you'd probably end up bankrupt for paying back the care, but at least you wouldn't be dead!
I personally feel like we have no care, no safety net. And it's scary.
Will it get better? What can be done?

We are ageing nation, this is only going to be a million times worse in a few years or less.

The quicker we can move over the Australian model the better. We simply can not continue with the illusion that we can keep pouring tens of billions into a system and see it evaporate. We need private companies to run the NHS as a business so that waste is reduced to the bare minimum, and we all need to start paying directly for the NHS services through a tax of some kind.
A brand new model and the biggest overhaul since its conception is what is required.
The NHS was simply not designed to cater for every single health need known to civilisation. It started as emergency help for those too poor to pay and since then has exploded into doing absolutely everything. It is failed business model and will never work, it does not matter how much you invest, it is a bottomless pit.

The NHS is not sustainable and hasn't been for years, decades.

Not a single party will touch it, but someone has to eventually grasp the nettle.

Those saying reduce waste, well that was what the hospital managers and very well paid consultants were there to do - and they have failed miserably for the best part of twenty years plus.

We need root and branch change, and quickly.

Exactly. Anyone with autoimmune conditions which normally multiply (my own mum has rheumatoid arthritis requiring biologics) would be absolutely fucked.

And I suspect this shower of shit government's definition of "people who can't afford it" would be very narrow.

I live in a European country. Where I live GP is free as is paediatrician for all under 14s. You can see them on the same day, they also home visit if necessary. You don't pay for emergency a&e.
We do pay, proportionately to income, for some tests and some interventions. For example an ecg for someone on low/middle income costs around 18€ . It would have been more for those on higher income, and less for those on lower. 10 physiotherapy visits cost around 35€.
A full range of blood work, done and results back within the week costs us around 25€, again, there will be those that pay more, and those next to nothing.
I'm not saying this system is better, it's just not a frightening way of doing things and people don't stop getting treatment because of the costs.

I'm an NHS worker, the problem isn't plenty of money and mismanagement- the problem is that no one applies for our jobs. And this isn't a brexit thing, this has been happening for years.

So while people sit around and criticise how we're trying to work this (yes my service has a 2 year waiting list, yes I desperately wish it didn't, yes I get up at 5am most days to try to clear the back log of work before I officially start being paid at 9am, yes my service has several vacancies it cannot fill) maybe sit back and ask why you're not applying for these posts? Why you didn't train in a caring professional and then maybe you'll see why those of us who did are so frazzled trying to do it.

I'm not saying the NHS is perfect, it isn't, but lots of us are trying really bloody hard.

I agree with the posters saying we are expecting too much for too little money. Everything is overstretched. It’s a vicious circle, staff leave because they are overwhelmed and so the remaining staff are even more stretched.

The NHS at conception was never intended to offer every treatment under the sun, including very expensive medications and surgeries. And it wasn’t set up to deal with an ageing, overweight population who take the NHS for granted and have high expectations.

We either need to pay more (be that in tax, insurance, or fees at the point of use) or we need to accept that the NHS cannot offer everything to everyone. If the latter then it would be better to pare back what the NHS offere and do that well, than have the current scenario where in theory the NHS does everything but in practice it’s struggling to do any of it well.

As a PP said we need to pick our poison.

Your whole post is hysterical and over dramatic and over exaggerated. Of course there are huge issues in the NHS but go and live in the 3rd world/war zone for a few months or pay for services system and let's see what you think.
And I am going to object personally to this one
People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented
Myself and every other GP I know must be imagining the thousands of patient contacts then, urgent care, mental health, possible cancer diagnoses, chronic disease medicine. Not only are we having more contacts and FTF appts than before COVID, we are having increasing pressures to "go back to normal". There is no normal. This is the only way to manage the massive demand currently with ever reducing staff and resources.

@CaronPoivre of course crews don't choose to outside a hospital, you know they get told which one to go to right? My DH spent 4 hours queueing out of area at a hospital as that was the one he was told to go to, but the hospital back in area was quieter.. if they don't follow control they are the ones risking their job (and yes it has happened)

And I agree the nhs is struggling, but my mum had a cancer scare and got seen in an hour by the gp and had testing within a week, my 9 month old had a chest infection and was at the gp within 30 minutes with an appointment.. so yes it's a pain I had to wait 3 weeks to see the gp, but when you need it they are there

@Kissingfrogs25

The idea that businesses run things better with no waste is laughable.

Or that other health care systems also don't cost billions

It makes no sense to me that people complain about the cost of health care and the think, I know what will help!

Profit!

👏👏

I can't fault my recent hospital stay really, lots of staff, very attentive, clean, efficient.. but took 15 months to get my op. But yes the state of A&E, drs apps, wait times etc.. scary.

Not true - hospitals are legally required to treat you in an emergency in the US regardless of insurance/ ability to pay. They will then seek payment afterwards, and it might well bankrupt you, but as op says you would still be alive.

it's bad but not that bad . i can easily access GP care via phone or in person , online for prescriptions etc and it's all working welll.
i think you are being very insulting to NHSs staff who are overworked and underfunded and deliver a por under resourced service . i am one of this staff, i earn less than two of my recently graduated children after 30
years in healthcare ( i'm fairly senior and have a phd )
my only child that earns less than me is a junior doctor, working in ED at the moment for 29k a year after 6 years of university

@memorial so we shouldn't complain until it sinks to the standard of "third world war zone"?

My local hospital has declared two critical incidents in recent weeks. All because they are struggling to cope with demand.

Exactly, there is already an out-of-hours GP service covering the whole UK, but in many places no or very limited GPs to staff it.

Lots of “timewasters” potentially could have something wrong, are concerned about something but not able to judge if significant or do not have access in hours to what they think they need. Of course there are some with no excuse.

Much of what you’ve quoted is the extreme stuff - yes it’s happening but it’s not universal. Yes we should demand better but there’s no point getting hysterical.
I agree with notathome. I have extensive experience of using the NHS, As does much of my family. I don't find it "terrifying". E.G. I sent a message and photos to my GP last Friday morning, I got a phone call a few hours later, they wanted me to go in at 2pm which I couldn't manage so at 3.30pm i was there, got seen and a prescription, reviewed in person this Wednesday. This is typical. I've had knee physio recently, been to the lymphoedema clinic, multiple scans etc. this is recent experience but typical for me and many of my family

Why?

Because getting to see a GP for anything non urgent is so demanding it’s more or less a FT job and for most people it’s just not workable.

To take my situation as an example. At my GP practice in SE London (which I think is not atypical), there are no bookable appointments at all now. The only ways to get seen, short of going to A&E are:

a) (in theory) phone the surgery from 8am for a same day appointment. The switchboard is inundated from 8am until about 10am. Invariably by the time someone picks up, all appointments for the day are gone
b) (in theory) book appointments online the night before. See point a. It just isn’t ever possible.
c) Queue up outside the GP’s office, dole queue style, for a same day appointment. You can usually get an appointment this way but at massive inconvenience.

In cases a and c this realistically takes a half day off work minimum to get booked in and seen. In theory case b is designed to circumvent this but there are almost never appointments available.

So unless you have something that requires urgent attention it’s very difficult to justify taking a half day off work several times a year to get advice on something which quite likely will turn out to be trivial.

We are always been told about the importance of vigilance, early intervention and being proactive about one’s health. The problem is that if you have a job and/or childcare responsibilities this is virtually impossible to achieve within the NHS without jeopardising your livelihood.

No wonder so many people brush potential health issues under the carpet and put things off until it’s too late.

In the US you wouldn’t receive care if you couldn’t provide proof of funds beforehand.

Twice one of my children has needed emergency and then inpatient care ( once we needed to call 911) in the US.... he had a habit of becoming very unwell on holiday. Both times he was initially treated and stabilised before we were asked about insurance. I'm not advocating for that system at all, but our experience was not as you stated.

I agree with this too. Service here has been good though. Easy access to GP the few times we’ve needed it.

People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented
Myself and every other GP I know must be imagining the thousands of patient contacts then, urgent care, mental health, possible cancer diagnoses, chronic disease medicine. Not only are we having more contacts and FTF appts than before COVID, we are having increasing pressures to "go back to normal". There is no normal. This is the only way to manage the massive demand currently with ever reducing staff and resources.

Ok.so.maybe in your surgery people can get an appointment but I'm seriously not kidding when I say you CANNOT in mine. They have an eConsult system, you submit a request and then are told the GP will call you back at some.point in.the next 48 hours. If you can't answer (because you can't just sit by your phone waiting non stop for 48 hours, I mean maybe you need to drive yhe kids to school, or go to a work meeting, or even just use the toilet!) Then that's it. You missed your chance. Start again. And they don't have an option of emergency appointments at my surgery AT ALL. If just isn't a thing. If you need to see someone same day you need to go to Urgent Care or A and E. That is what we're told in the speak while we're on hold if we try and call them.

To be fair I'm not blaming the actual GPs themselves. At my surgery if you do.manage to get to see someone we have 1 absolutely amazing doctor, a few who are pretty good and 1 who is dire. But if you can't get to see them, even with a sick child then absolutely that's not a system that works.

And for those of you who have great GPs and great experiences, I'm very glad. But I don't think that is the norm at all here days. You are lucky.

The treatment of patients can also be terrifying. How to make the NHS more kind to patients? I feel for all the souls that avoid medical treatment due to previous mistreatment by the NHS.

I agree OP, it’s very scary. I’m particularly concerned for my elderly parents who are both in their 80’s. It’s very concerning they might have to wait hours for an ambulance should they have a health emergency.

Surely I’m not the only one who’s been sat on the loo when the GP rang and desperately hoping they can’t hear the echo. 😳

For the first time ever we have taken private health insurance out , we took it out in Covid for my husband, and then we decided to take in out for me as well last month. Luckily both of us have no underlying health problems so was not as expensive as we thought it was going to be. The NHS is on its knees , we can’t even phone our doctor have to put in a email request.