The state of the NHS right now is terrifying

[Faciadipasta]

I am feeling genuinely scared for us as a country health care wise. I was reading today about a chap who died of internal bleeding while his family were kept on hold to 999 for 10 minutes as nobody even answered the phone.
Then there are all the people who die while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, because they are all lined up.outside the hospitals unable to offload their patients.
People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented if they'd been seen. Waits at A and E are enormous and they don't even have enough chairs so people with serious injuries or illnesses are having to just sit on the floors in the corridors.
We're actually starting to feel like one of those warzone countries that you see on the news and it is scaring me shitless.
I mean even in the US you wouldn't just be left to die because there was nobody to answer the phone although admittedly you'd probably end up bankrupt for paying back the care, but at least you wouldn't be dead!
I personally feel like we have no care, no safety net. And it's scary.
Will it get better? What can be done?

The US system is an entirely different system.

Most EU healthcare systems are far far far superior to the UK model.

I've never been to Australia so I can't comment on that model.

Continuing to throw money at the NHS will not fix the underlying structural issues:

• overly bureaucratic, inefficient and outdated working practices,
• poor workforce policies ie difficult to address if people not performing; sickness absence always running high
• Wrong workforce structure; combined often with toxic working environments, medical hierarchies that prevent improvement, general apathy and resistance to change etc
• no basic control over budgets

Some corrections:
Bank staff cost the Trust the same as a normal member of staff.
They are, basically, employed on a zero hours contract on the same A4C pay scales.
Most Trust pay mid-band for bank hours. Staff do not receive more money.
Agency nurses are different. But they are used as a last resort.
Same as Agency doctors.

I recently had the misfortune to spend 24 hours in an A&E recently. People I spoke to there included someone with a sprained finger, someone with a cold who hadn't even called their GP, someone who had caught their toenail and ripped some of it off. All things that DO NOT need you turning up to A&E.
But all had to be at least triaged. The wait for triage was 9 hours.

They ran out of chairs as so many people had groups of people with them. Yes, bring someone with you if you want to and can. But you do not need to bring 3 or 4 people with you who then refuse to give up their chairs.

Part of the utter shambles that was my visit was the fact that the non clinical reception staff couldn't deviate from the fixed rules they had to follow and there was no allowance for my situation (transferred from one hospital to another, with a letter and notes). But this isn't the fault of the staff. And I am sick to the back teeth of people blaming the staff themselves. 99% of the staff in the NHS are bloody amazing and do everything they can to improve peoples situation.

What were you there for?

There's a bit more to it than that though isn't there?

I have never voted Tory and never will and I totally agree that this Conservative govt and its predecessors are ideologically opposed to free at the point of care healthcare. But it goes beyond that.

I don't work in the NHS and don't profess to understand the mechanics and costs associated with it or whether the claims of mismanagement are accurate or ideological. For the record I also have huge respect for the individuals who work in the NHS and have sympathy for the massive strain they are under.

But its too simplistic to say that under a Labour government we would suddenly all magically be able to get GP appointments at the drop of a hat.

There are massive, structural problems with the way the NHS works which no amount of investment will fix. As PPs have pointed out, the way its expected to 'mop up' large amounts of what should come under the heading of social care. The huge cost of treating an aging population which chronic conditions such as diabetes and dementia. The inability to hire and retain the right staff (which Brexit I agree has a lot to answer for) and the stress and burnout which the staff endure. The spiralling cost of pharmaceuticals.

The NHS was structurally challenged even under the last Labour government (and btw it was Labour which triggered a lot of the unsustainable PPP costs which trusts still struggle with). But a lot of investment went into health during the Blair/Brown years.

Don't get me wrong, I still want a Labour government but its delusional to think that kicking the Tories out is a silver bullet for the NHS. The problems are far more entrenched than that. It's now an unsustainable system.

The U.K. had a good model but it’s straining under demographic changes after it was created.

Even China has a better healthcare system. They believe in the mantra 'prevention is better than cure' so you see a GP (or equivalent) at least once a year to PREVENT illness.

Oh. And when husband went to ER in America (with someone that he would have gone to A&E with in the UK and it did need immediate treatment), they wouldn't let him see a Doctor until he had provided his credit card.

An American friend who didn't have insurance for a short while wouldn't be seen until she had provided credit card details when she had an ectopic pregnancy.

Another friend buys his anti depressents on the black market as he can't afford the doctor appointment to have them prescribed as he maxed out his yearly "medication allowance" on his insurance after major emergency surgery (which has left him with very serious amounts of debt).

A friend in Ireland, where they are charged €50 to see a GP couldn't justify the money and so her skin cancer was diagnosed too late to save her.

If you can afford health insurance, pay for it and use it. But never put healthcare out of the financial reach of EVERYONE.

I know people think Labour will do it all but PFI figures and timescales have been fairly shocking, just kicking that can down the road to us. And Labour in Wales doesn’t fill me with hope.

With respect, I doubt your on the same sort of money as a GP.
They want ( and get) the big bucks and we as a society should expect very high standards and at least a full working week.
When you train for a job like that, you are taking on a significant commitment that you should honor.
Take part time working hours off the table. They can work on school dinners if want part time hours around the kids.

Again.

Laughing at the suggestion that private sector common sense is the answer.

Which private sector are we looking at for the answers?

European health care services have higher spends, much more staff and far more hospital beds.

They also tend to have differing health needs, population wise

Another thing which the NHS won't even look at is alternative medicine. Massage, yoga, acupuncture etc.

@Mobiledesktop

What an absolutely terrible attitude

Stress is actually known to be the biggest killer. It causes all sorts of changes in the body which provoke illness.
The other big factor is diet and given how the price of food is surging right now, expect a lot of very ill people in the future.

I went to see my GP yesterday. The waiting room was packed with patients. I’m not denying some people are having difficulty getting appointments but it’s not the case everywhere. My surgery have made some changes that have made it much easier to access care face to face or by phone.

Why have they different health needs?

That’s not true. Emergency care must be provided regardless of ability to pay in the USA. There are also county hospitals that offer free treatment in many states for those that can’t afford it as well as many state programs for healthcare for the low income.

I do think there is a general crisis in the nhs and we need to make some choices if we want to keep it in its current form

Where do you live?

What? To expect people to do a weeks work.
When all is said and done you have to be there to do the job.

@TheNosehasit I'm not going into details (possibly outing) but it was serious, and resulted in a 10 day hospital stay and on gong treatment. Part of the reason it took so long was I got a taxi in instead of the suggested ambulance (20 mins away from hospital but 5 hour wait for ambulance, so seemed sensible at the time), which was agreed by 111 and 999. Both had contacted the hospital ahead of my arrival but I was faced with a "computer says no" type situation.

But what I did so was write a letter outlining the issues that could easily have bee prevented, and copied it to my local MP. Changes have been made already on the back of this.

@TheNosehasit

Different cultures. Especially around elderly care and diet.

And expectations of what their paid for health care can provide

I think you mean Alternative Therapies.
None of the things you have listed are anything to do with medicine.

It's medicine by any definition.

Agree and surely some of these people can just do. The GP will even prescribe activity but a person needs to actually do it.

@Mobiledesktop

If a weeks work for a gp was 40 hours I'd agree with you.

Flexible working practices and staff will being are proven to be more productive and effective.

It would also force women out of the work place.

All grades of hcp are leaving in droves.

Your attitude won't help