For taking DS out when he's supposed to be at school?

[penny4books]

First off, I want to say I'm in no way letting DS get away with his behaviour.

DS is 14, and in year 9. Last year, He was excluded for taking a knife into school, and is now attending a PRU. He later told me he'd get angry and voices would then tell him to do things, he's currently on the waiting list for CAHMS but it could take years and I don't have the money to go private unfortunately.

He came home from school yesterday and was in a bad mood so went to his room to calm down and so we know to leave him alone. DPs children were around yesterday and SS(13) went into his room to talk to him about a game, but because DS didn't want to speak to anyone and SS wouldn't leave him alone, he threw his book at him. SS came and told us and I went to talk to DS, he told me he didn't mean to, he got angry and couldn't help it etc, he did later apologise to SS. I did take his phone off him though.

Today, I've kept him off school as everyday he seems to have a bad day and it's causing problems with his behaviour as at home, he's mostly well behaved at weekends and during holidays so I suspect he's struggling to cope at the PRU, as he was at his old school. I do suspect he could be autistic but again, he needs a diagnosis which could take years so I can't send him to an SEN school. Today's plan is to take him out to town so I can talk to him, he doesn't have any devices so being at home won't be ‘fun’ for him but DP has said I'm BU by doing this so I should stay at home with him all day.

AIBU?

I'm a member of the NFIS facebook page. Unfortunately there is some poor advise on their suggesting to deregister. There are also differing degrees of 'not fine'. Ultimately no education at all is better than harming a child by putting them in a harmful environment. Health is everything. Education can wait.

Okay, fair enough then, I stand corrected. The parents and the school agree together to keep the child on roll, as opposed to enrolling them somewhere else.

Okay, fair enough then, I stand corrected. The wording should have been ‘the parents and school agree together to keep the child on roll’ as opposed to taking them off and enrolling them somewhere else.

Okay, fair enough then, I stand corrected. The wording should have been ‘the parents and school agree together to keep the child on roll’ as opposed to taking them off and enrolling them somewhere else.

Okay, fair enough then, I stand corrected. The wording should have been ‘the parents and school agree together to keep the child on roll’ as opposed to taking them off and enrolling them somewhere else.

In practice the agreement is that this happens whilst an EHCNA takes place and / or while alternative provision is sought.

Parents don't take the decision to keep their children off school lightly. It's a huge deal. Society thinks children should be educated in school and that children should go, which is fairly well demonstrated in this thread.

I went to a PRU - they can be tough. I was a girl so my experience, while awful, was tough, for boys it can be even harder. You've got a load of the worst behaved kids in one place. Maybe he's finding it hard? There's always tougher out there.
I agree no treats but talking in room or on a simple walk is fine.

I’m not disagreeing with you about the law. The law is the law. I’m talking about what sometimes happens in reality. As demonstrated by parents in the Not Fine in School group, not all children are able to access appropriate alternative provision, often forcing parents to EHE. Or they are offered it and it turns out to be inappropriate. Or there is an incredibly long wait for the right kind of schooling. Or there is nothing in the person’s specific area. Despite the legislation, people do fall through the cracks.

No one needs to EHE. The area they live in is irrelevant, as are waiting lists. Provision must be provided once it becomes clear a pupil will miss 15 days (the days don’t need to have already been missed or consecutive) and parents can force the LA to provide suitable, full time education if the LA delay or refuse.

Again, I didn’t say ‘all pupils will miss out on qualifications’ I said they ‘may’ miss out on qualifications. It’s great that children can obtain qualifications outside of the traditional environment, however they may not be able to access the full range they would have otherwise had. Or they might not be academically appropriate.

I didn’t say you said all pupils, but no pupil needs to miss out on qualifications. The full range of qualifications can be sat if appropriate. And if it isn’t appropriate for their needs that wouldn’t change just because they were in a school environment.

I hold my hands up, I should have said ‘as agreed WITH the school’. As in the school have agreed to keep them on roll whilst accessing alternative provision. Not that the school have permitted the alternative provision.

But that’s still not correct. It’s not agreed with the school. The school don’t get any choice in the s.19 provision or whether the pupil remains on the school roll. They are not allowed to remove them from the school’s roll (with a very rare caveat of pupils who have be certified as medically unfit to return to school before ceasing to be of CSA and they won’t be returning to the school for post 16 provision - this is an extreme caveat normally reserved for case which involve terminal illness or similar. And is not to be confused with pupils who are medically unable to attend school for a prolonged period.).

That should be no one needs to EHE unless they actually want to.

And does this hold true in 2 or 3 years when a girlfriend is 'nagging' him to do something, or irritating him in some way? He will be justified in lashing out?

fUNNYfACE36

No one deserves to be lashed out at, but in your hypothetical scenario is there room for him to remove himself from the situation and the girlfriend not allowing him to?
As that would make her an abuser as well.

OP, it’s good that your DS is talking to you and that he is aware of what to do.

I’d be implementing a “no shouting” house rule for everyone, including DP. Even if DS was perfectly well and just being a horror for no reason it still wouldn’t be DP’s place to shout at him. It was your decision to keep him off, and DP needs to either accept that you are the parent or get out of your lives.

And does this hold true in 2 or 3 years when a girlfriend is 'nagging' him to do something, or irritating him in some way? He will be justified in lashing out?

If you have no way to get out and someone is refusing to leave you alone, pretty much everyone would eventually snap. Besides which, he isn’t an adult. He is a child who is still learning to manage his emotions. He handled this one badly, has been punished and discussed with his parent what an appropriate response would have been.

I think you can tell the difference between advice from people who have some experience of your situation and those that clearly don't.
A change of scenery, neutral ground can really help when these discussions are taking place.
Connecting over a coffee and a cake in a coffee shop ( if that's his thing), a walk and fish and chips on the beach, doing something that makes ds feel better about things so he is in a good frame of mind makes all the difference. Whatever it is, connecting is the key.
Ignore anyone telling you that you would be rewarding him by doing this. They just don't know what you're dealing with. you have a long wait ahead for the help you need, you need to keep that connection going.
Never be shy to keep calling the go, CAMHS, anyone who has a stake in adolescent mental health. There is also the crisis team if it all goes horribly wrong.
Hold him close, he's really struggling. From what you've said, you are already doing well. Be firm with other children that they must leave ds to himself when he needs time to re-regulate himself after a day at school. All the best.

Three suggestions, your DS needs a safe word, one that isn't often used in everyday conversation, then if he says it unless there is an immediate threat to his or another's safety everyone, including your DP and DSS immediately leave him alone. He needs to feel safe in his own home again. He can't regain any sort of mental health while he doesn't feel that.

Two, it sounds like your GP has just washed his hands of this, did he suggest medication at all or referral to someone who could look at all the treatment pathways? I don't know how the UK systems work, but I do know there are other options then counselling for children much younger then this. In mental health crisis, which it certainly sounds like your son is in, medication is often needed in conjunction with counselling, it provides the mental space for things like CBT to work. My GP has and did prescribe anxiety medication for my DD. Not all GPs are good with mental health issues and many I know would not feel comfortable prescribing to a child or adolescent because of the extra complexity of mental health treatment for children. Mental health issues are usually referred to paediatricians here, who will prescribe medication if necessary, they may then refer more complex mental health problems to psychiatrists that specialise in treating children or adolescents, though there are few and far between here.

Three have you looked around for alternative provision of mental health services? Where I am our local university offers low cost counselling through the clinic where students doing masters work under the aegis of qualified professionals. Again I don't know the system where you are, another way to access cheap counselling here is through organisations like the Catholic church and the carer support organisation.

I don't know if those are useless suggestions for you, just putting it there in case it's helpful. I've spent years pushing and advocating and googling looking for avenues to help my DC, it's hard and it's exhausting and it's very much an endless marathon getting supports in place. It shouldn't be like this, but it's usually the only way to get help . I hope you can get your son the help he needs.

In the UK the vast majority of GPs won’t prescribe medication for MH difficulties to children and young people without the medication being initiated by CAMHS because of NICE guidelines. For example, with antidepressants NICE guidelines state they should only be prescribed to children and young people following assessment and diagnosis by a child and adolescent psychiatrist and that it should only be used alongside therapy not instead of. For medication such as melatonin to help with sleep the majority of GPs require it to be initiated by either CAMHS or paediatrician.

That makes it really hard to get help with the wait for CAMHS so long. Sorry for the useless advice OP.

Have you taken him to the GP about him hearing voices?

Oh definitely, I don't have autism but I prefer intense or emotional conversation to be done while doing something else at the same time

You could be waiting years for camhs, if your ds is really struggling take him to A & E & ask to see the crisis team, that was the only way I got ds in to the system. Could you get a keep out sign for his bedroom door that he can put on if he needs time to decompress? His room is his safespace & should be kept that way at all costs.

You could be there for days. I was in A&E last year and there was a young person who had been there over 24hrs waiting for help. A&E staff were excellent with her, to be fair to them, but she was getting increasingly distressed at the long wait.

Anecdotally I've heard of people waiting three days or so.