The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

How disingenuous. It’s still been paid. It forms part of the overall cost of your employment, along with the employer’s contribution to a private pension.

I find it hard to believe someone could be this ignorant tbh. Use your imagination!

Old people use more NHS services than young people - they need to travel to hospital appointments for example. Most smaller towns do not have hospitals, so they'll need to travel to the nearest city. And outside of London and a few other major cities, bus services have been stripped back hugely in many areas.

Or maybe, just maybe, old people want to retain a social life outside of visiting their children? Maybe they travel to the nearest town to go swimming, to see friends, to keep physically and mentally active etc.

My mum and dad are on very low pensions (living separately, so each has to pay all their own bills). I do not resent them having the money they need to enable them to go out and participate in the world. They are human beings FFS!

There are many reasons why pensioners will have transport costs, and it's mind-boggling that you would resent them having enough to fund it.

Do you think they should all sit indoors staring at the wall and reflecting on their misdeeds for being born before you?

I'm fit and healthy and could walk to a bus stop easily. It doesn't change the fact that bus services to where I live have been stripped back so much that the bus is useless.

A couple of buses a day on weekdays (which might mot fit with the time you need to travel) and nothing at all on weekends. That's it.

me too - just checked my record - and I was born in 1971, in 1987 to 1988 I have full contributions, and only 1 year missed in the early 90s (no idea why)

Yes - 51 years of paying NI and taxes

Estimate based on your National Insurance record up to 5 April 2022
£179.43 a week
Forecast if you contribute another 2 years before 5 April 2038
£185.15 a week

£185.15 is the most you can get

Also, someone could be frail enough that they can't walk or take the bus to do their weekly shopping, but they still want to retain the independence of doing it themselves. So they take a taxi.

Maintaining independence and getting out into the world, maintaining human contact etc. is really important for many older people. Only a complete shit would resent it.

I will have paid NI for 49 years and will not get as much as £185 state pension a week.

But I have a health condition that means I will die before I am really old. So don't worry young people, you will not have to pay my state pension for too long.

If older people can not afford taxis, too many will try to continue driving when they are not safe to do so. Lots of people can not manage public transport.

And lots of people don't have access to good public transport. Outside of cities, public transport provision is very poor.

The pensioners in my family are not living it up on six figure incomes. They are eking out small incomes and living very frugally. They do spend money to enable them to continue the activities that keep them mentally healthy and engaged with the world, and I think this is totally reasonable. Loneliness and isolation kills older people.

It's not for everyone! But they've got to keep their voters sweet for now. I certainly (48) do not anticipate getting this. Its a benefit that will soon go.

100%

But it is not a benefit in the same way that others are. Pension tax credits are a benefit, state pension is not a benefit in the same way that jibs seekers, disability etc are.

Women born in the 50s were not properly informed about the changes until the 90s. Prior to that, the Government thought that silly adverts in newspapers showing one dog talking to another did the job! Some women effected found out what was going to happen on the grapevine, but many didn’t. Those who didn’t had no opportunity to plan financially for the situation. Also, the majority of women in that cohort worked from the age of 15 and for at the least first 20 years, earned considerably less than men for the same work. Those are the reasons why that group should be compensated. You can see the advert here.
www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-7254221/VICTORIA-BISCHOFF-Government-complete-dogs-dinner-pension-age-campaign.html

And I agree with this - pensioners who have a private pension of around £1-2k a year or less are very common in my experience. It's not extreme - lots of people are living on very low incomes in low age.

The pensioner with a £50k index linked pension, holiday home and 2 cars is actually the extreme example.

I also wouldn't believe everything you read on here because many of the claims are pretty out there. The 'six figure'civil service pension mentioned upthread for example - only a handful of civil servants would get anywhere near that. People like to stoke envy and division, but a large chunk of what's said is just untrue.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE??

No, not everyone. It depends on what year you were born in. Mine is less than this. Also the self employed receive a lower state pension.

Those on a state pension who may or may not also receive a small private pension and who may have an additional income from a part-time job will pay tax, too, if over the tax threshold.

Absolutely.

It's a good film, but I don't see the relevance for this discussion about pensions.
Nomad tackles elder poverty in the US and is quite interesting.

Agree 100% I am glad I don't meet any of these shitty people in real life. I am 60, still paying tax and NI BTW.

Also depends on whether you have enough years Ni contributions or credits

Has 'we'll have to seriously consider making assisted dying legal' reared it's ugly head yet?

Totally

As I have said previously, a society who doesn't look after its elderly is a disgrace. Those that despise the elderly who have done everything asked of them throughout their lives, often struggling along the way are utterly despicable.

State pension is a contributory benefit.
If you don't get the full amount then you can apply for means tested pension credit.

One rationale behind it being more than income replacement benefits for those of working age is that those who are retired will in all likelihood not be able to work again, certainly not full time. Those of working age should be able to get back into employment so working age benefits are a temporary measure (with disability benefits for those who are unable to work).

Women born in the 50s were not properly informed about the changes until the 90s

Given that Kenneth Clarke raised the minimum pension age for women from 60 in his 1993 budget and then encoded it in the Pensions Act 1995, there were no changes to be informed about until the 1990s.

I've paid into the state pension pot along with 2 private pension pots all my adult life.

You can get tae feck if you think I shouldn't be entitled to all 3 when I retire!