To be worried about the lack of understanding around how many calories children need?

[MandalayFray]

I’ve seen a few posts over the last few weeks that have really concerned me around how adults, and parents at that, genuinely seem to have no idea how much food or how many calories the average child needs.

On the pizza thread the other day people were saying 2 slices of pizza and a few nuggets was more than enough for a teenage boy, that they couldn’t eat more than that as a grown woman.

Failing to understand that yes, because the average teenage boy need almost double the daily calories compared to an adult woman.

The average teen boy needs between 2,800-3,000 calories a day, moderately active ones 3,000-3,300 a day, very active ones 3,500-4,000. So no a 500 calorie dinner wouldn’t cut the mustard.

Same again today on a soup thread, apparently half a tin is MORE than enough for a child. The recommended calorie intake for a 4-5 year old is 1,400 calories! So no, a 200 calorie lunch is most definitely not ‘more’ than enough.

I know this site is known for ‘disordered’ eating posts at times but this is genuinely confusing me, do people not look into how many calories they should be feeding their kids as a baseline?

And yes before people start, I know they could be eating an entire pack of aunt Bessie’s pancakes for breakfast and a whole hog roast at tea, and yes I know your kids might be tube fed and need 5 calories a meal. But if we look at averages this doesn’t stack up with many posters views on here.

One of the issues is definitely ‘snacks’. This, I feel, is a relatively new problem. We never had them as children, but now the shops are full of temptingly packaged snacks, even for toddlers. I find it quite bizarre, and it’s possibly one of the reasons why so many children don’t eat properly balanced and healthy meals. They just fill up (much too much) on snacks.

Agree. My teen son needs much more than 2 slices of pizza and he’s tall and slim. I make our own pizzas including the crust. My son has 5 or 6 slices but could easily eat the whole thing, 8 slices, plus a large salad. The only reason he doesn’t is if I only make one pizza for the three of us. Usually though I make two pizzas.

I also wondered at the thread the other day. Two slices of pizza not enough, for sure.

The majority of teens are not overweight - it is only just over one-thrd are overeight or obese, meaning almost two-thirds are not, of whom plenty will be underweight (and increasing numbers of those ).

Yes there are obesity issues but if your child is not overweight then they need to eat plenty (of the right stuff).

I remember eating MOUNTAINS at around ages 14-16, and I was very thin. It calmed right down after 16.

According to eatright.org teenage boys need an average of 2800 calories - that's an average which means half of them actually need less.

That's not really how averages work.

My 13 year old DS is fairly active. He rarely snacks and eats pretty modestly at breakfast and lunch but can (and often does) eat 2 full portions of dinner. He is not overweight.

It's beyond ironic that you're complaining about other people being ill-informed when you're the one who's wrong. The boy on the thread you're referring to was 13. According to the NHS, 13yo boys, on average, need 2414 calories per day. That is nowhere near the exaggerated bullshit numbers you're throwing about. The thread also wasn't just pizza and a few nuggets - it was also chips and the OP made them a sandwich.

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/childrens-health/how-many-calories-do-teenagers-need/

Assuming a slice of pizza is 1/6 (the OP said it was a frozen supermarket pizza), we're looking at around 370 calories for the pizza (Goodfellas pizza). Even if only 1/2 a portion of chips was given (and we all know that the supermarkets allocate small portions on their calorie count anyway), that'd be another 125 calories for the chips (Tesco oven chips). Say "a few nuggets" is three nuggets then that's 110 calories in Tesco nuggets. That totals over 600 calories. Given that it's recommended to have 15-20% of calories during dinner, that would mean a suggested calorie intake of 362-482 - so, that dinner was actually way over the factual, scientifically recommended amount for a boy of that age.

Everyone will look ignorant if you invent your own reality and get pissy when the rest of the world didn't psychically know what you're now insisting is reality - obviously YABU. You're both unreasonable and wrong on the facts.

I don’t think anyone has a real understanding of how much or what they should be eating.

there’s a lot of thin people who are malnourished.

there’s a lot of fat people that are malnourished.

there’s lucky people who can eat well all their lives and be OK and a healthy weight.

there’s overweight women who would develop an eating disorder if they did eat the correct amount of calories because they need so few calories it would be barely tolerable and they’d struggle to get what they need et protein, fats and nutrients.

im fortunate at 5’5 my requirement is 1800 calories this gives me sufficient nutrient dense meals X3 without snacks. If I stick to that then I do lose weight. I eat maybe 2000 a day because I have a teenage boy who needs 3000 and I’m struggling with getting enough in him and not overeating myself.

One thing DH and I had to be careful about was not increasing our prtions to match the teens' dinners! We are careful to eat e.g. fewer slices of pizza than they do.

Why would there be anything other than a normal distribution curve for calorie requirement? I think you’re being a bit pedantic. Happy to have a deeper maths chat though if I’m wrong.

I don’t think most people check calorie requirements or calorie count for children or teens. Many are genuinely clueless re cals in food and especially drinks.
I definitely think issue is too many cals not too few. Lots of children and teens snack lots and have calories via drinks.
If requirement is only 1400 for a 4/5 yr old then it’s easy to see why almost 1/3 overweight or obese.

Well, I don't really like nuggets and pizza as a meal as whether or not it's the right number of calories, it's unlikely to fill them up and has insufficient nutrition. Which means it's the kind of treat thing and then I'd say go wild.

The biggest issue is that children don't get enough variety in their diets and if they do have big appetites, it's too easy to fill them up on empty carbs/high fat or high sugar items.

DS, who was weaned with all the poncey annabelle Carmel his heart could desire, now that he's 12 he's a brilliant eater who eats a great variety of food etc notwithstanding his brief stint of toddler-fussiness. But we weren't as good with DD and she is much fussier, and eats a much more restricted diet to this day. I worry that as she gets older if she's hungry, it will be a lot harder to fill her up by adding extra vegetables to her plate or whatever.

It’s actually a myth that we have all these underweight children.

I can’t find the figures for teenagers specifically, but if we look at 10/11 year olds, 2022 figures show that:

• around 40% are overweight or obese; and
• around 1% are underweight.

That says it all really.

I wonder if the real stats are we have more malnourished kids with the rise of preventable diseases.

most people assume malnourishment = underweight.

It's recommended to have 15-20% of calories over dinner @Hottt? By who? When are you supposed to eat the other 85%?

Most people eat most of their calories at dinner. The kid was given the same size portion as his 4 year old sibling. And the only reason he also had a sandwich was because he was still hungry.

@SheWoreYellow

Sorry, yes, I was being a teeny bit pedantic.
I'm jet-lagged and very hungry.

Tbh your examples don't show a lack of understanding because there are so many variables. A 13-yr-old with a sedentary lifestyle has very different needs from an active 18-yr-old. And yy I know you mentioned that in your OP but those facts can't really be dismissed with a wave of the hand. If I look at the teens I know in RL then I think most parents do have an understanding of the calories they need.

A lot of MNetters are likely in the Muswill Hill (aka 'Muesli Hill') socio-economic demographic. I recall reading an article about malnutrition among very MC families in the area who feed their DC totally inappropriate foodstuffs for healthy growth and maintained wellbeing.

I think it’s quite rare for children to be malnourished in the U.K., in that most children would get enough of the vital nutrients even if they have a pretty unhealthy/limited diet. However, there is a worryingly huge proportion who are having the kind of meal described by the OP on a regular basis, which means long - term damage is being done to their bodies. I.e. children are getting the nutrients they need but they are also having ultra processed food which leads to changes in our cells etc leading to obesity, cancer, type 2 diabetes, etc.

But people on mumsnet always insist that it’s all food, there is no “bad” food, etc. Sadly that’s just not true. There is more and more research showing that it’s not just about how many calories you eat but how you get those calories.

100% agree.

People on that thread were also comparing the calories they eat when they're trying to lose weight to the needs of a teenager. Totally inappropriate.

Best go and eat some pizza then. Not too
much, mind.

Thanks for making me think it through 😍

Given that it's recommended to have 15-20% of calories during dinner

Eh? By who?

Most advice I've seen refers to numbers in the region of 30-40% of calories at dinner.

One of the biggest issues I see on here is the overfeeding of teens. They are literally eating their parents out of house and home. I also clearly recall a thread where they’d had a fish and chip takeaway and were still starving (if only they knew what that was truly like) and someone suggested ‘whipping up a cottage pie for supper’. You have teens clearing the house of bread, milk, cereal, fruit etc. Some are plain greedy/bored/thirsty.

The thread also wasn't just pizza and a few nuggets - it was also chips and the OP made them a sandwich.

Yes, but the OP of that thread was specifically asking about the pizza, nuggets and chips on their own, because that's what the boy was served for his dinner by his dad (who he was afraid to ask for more). And it was the same size portion that his 4 year old brother got.

Either the 4 yr old is being massively overfed, or the teen is being underfed. The fact that the teen needed a sandwich right after dinner suggests the latter.

do people not look into how many calories they should be feeding their kids as a baseline?

Answering this- No I don't. I plate up food for my children which I think looks about right. If it is too much then they can leave some. If they don't feel it is enough then they can help themselves to more. I feed them healthy food and trust them to listen to their bodies.

It is entirely possible to have eaten loads of calories but still be malnourished because of the quality of what you eat. And a malnourished body will be hungry.