Page 6 | How do we solve the social care crisis ?

Worriedddd · 2022-10-31T13:33:57+00:00

We have complex needs patients being stuck in hospital for up to 2 years. Some even more they are ready to leave just there's no social care placements and they can't get the right staff anyway. For minimum wage carers will have support people with very challenging needs. There is high risk of assault in many care settings employers don't offer the right training like de-escalation and breakway. . You could get more money working for Lidl and aldi. Even with immigration people leave and find another job. What's the solution to this ?

thebellagio · 31/10/2022 17:05

@Winter2020 thats a great idea. To be honest I really don’t understand why shift work isn’t based on that basis anyway. If you know you need cover 24/7 surely get the shifts to people who want those specific times.

ancientgran · 31/10/2022 17:08

Care isn't just about the elderly. I've worked in homes caring for people with mental health issues and/or learning difficulties. The numbers might be higher for elderly care but they aren't likely to be in care for 60 years.

Turnaroundandigone · 31/10/2022 17:08

Eastangular2000 · 31/10/2022 14:59

Children are primarily the responsibility of their parents and yes I believe that parents have a greater responsibility for their offspring for their whole lives, than 'society' at large. The responsibility should sit with the family as the default with the state stepping in as a back up. Any parent mother or father, should consider looking after their child to be a lifelong responsibility, yes.

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Spoken as someone who clearly doesn't have a profoundly disabled child! For many people childcare isn't available for these children, and there are even less options for disabled adults. Childcare for my son is only available privately at around £27 an hour and that's only IF they can find someone with suitable skills at the time and even then he is unlikely to accept a stranger in his house. He refuses sen school transport so i am currently doing 80 miles per day just ferrying him to school and back. How do you suggest the average person affords this?

Also he barely sleeps and requires constant supervision to keep him out of danger. He is likely to need this degree of his supervision his whole life.

ConsuelaHammock · 31/10/2022 17:13

We need to be more willing to look after our elderly ourselves ?

ancientgran · 31/10/2022 17:14

Winter2020 · 31/10/2022 16:53

I think employers could do quite a lot to improve the job for carers even setting pay aside.

There seems to be a culture of having to be available for rotas which are drawn up at random and contracted for a low amount of hours even for people that need full time work.

Imagine if employers tried to work with carers considering their needs to cover the whole care package needed like pieces of a jigsaw.

E.g. if a parent wanted to work only mornings Mon-Fri so they can do the school pick up (partner/grandparent/childminder does drop off) they probably can't get a job in care easily. I think it would be great if they could - then there would be someone else contracted mon-fri afternoons/evenings who could do their school drop offs. Students/parents with partners that work long hours might want weekends. If weekends are hard to cover pay more for weekend shifts until it balances out.

A 24/7 service should be an opportunity for all kinds of flexibility but instead the culture is expecting people to be available at all times of the day and sometimes night making it very family unfriendly.

People who need full time work being under employed on part time hours have to constantly scrabble for overtime or struggle. Not surprising they leave if they see something full time.

That is not to mention that you can earn more per hour in your first day in retail or hospitality at the moment than after a decade of working with/learning about and training for your complex client group.

That can be difficult (speaking as someone who has done rotas for carers.) If you take someone on to do regular 9 - 5 Monday to Friday it just leaves others with always doing lates/nights/weekends when they might like to have some time off.

If there was an endless supply it might be workable but when you are trying to cover the unsociable hours without enough staff it would be really hard to do.

BigWoollyJumpers · 31/10/2022 17:16

Samcro · 31/10/2022 15:47

maybe it would help if people would realise that not all people in care homes are old.

This. 50% of social care expenditure is on adults under 65. This demographic has also increased hugely in the last 30 years or so due to better treatment of disabilities like Downs. Not so very long ago, Downs children only lived until they were 20, now they live a normal life span. Likewise many babies who may have died at birth in the not so distant past, now live long lives fully supported by the state. It's another difficult reality we have to, as a society, face. These children now outlive their parents, who generally care for them for many years, and the state has to step up.

Sugarplumfairy65 · 31/10/2022 17:31

RedAppleGirl · 31/10/2022 13:38

Modern medicine is to blame for this, the ethics of keeping people alive is a desperately needed public discussion. I don't believe it's tenable anymore.

What would the cut off age be for stopping medical treatment and leaving someone to die?

WeAreOnTheRoadToNowhere · 31/10/2022 17:36

I don't think withholding treatment should be based on age but quality of life
The people I am thinking about are those like my relative. Unable to engage in life in a meaningful way, not able to get out of bed, don't know who anyone is, not able to enjoy the TV, radio or conversation

Winter2020 · 31/10/2022 17:41

@ancientgran
The model of expecting carers to be available at all times has contributed to care being an unattractive career and it's clearly not working out as agencies can't take on clients because they can't staff the care.

There are not enough people who are either willing or able to be available at all times for the money on offer so employers need to try something different. Either better money, better terms and conditions or even both.

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 31/10/2022 17:45

We need to be more willing to look after our elderly ourselves?

Then we also need society to be structured in a way that allows it. That would have to start with addressing the cost of housing, which is a generational ticking time bomb.

LifeIsGreatForUnicorns · 31/10/2022 17:52

thebellagio · 31/10/2022 13:46

I think we need to reposition the money going to the NHS. It shouldn't be one or the other. It should be both cumulatively.

How many people are happy to raise money for the NHS or clap for nurses, without giving that same respect to the social care sector? After all, if we can fix the social crisis, we are also directly helping the NHS because it would free up such a whopping proportion of beds, leading to better care all around.

If I was a politician, I personally would do the following (of course, this is all in an ideal world scenario):

Living arrangements.
Focus heavily on elderly living requirements as much as first time buyers. I've spoken on here at length before about how there are no bungalows for older people to move into where they could easily live independently at home without needing care. Property developers should factor in the same proportion of their plans to create homes for older people as they do affordable living.

That way, the people who have had a fall or can no longer manage their stairs can still be independent in their own home without bed blocking because their home is no longer fit for purpose.

I think we also need to realise that there comes a time when you have to downsize. My parents moved into a bungalow at the age of 60, and I remember asking them why, and they said it was so they could always remain living at home. They didn't need a 4 bed house just to themselves, it was too big for them. But by moving early, they have been able to enjoy their home and make it exactly what they wanted rather than being forced into somewhere they didn't like. I understand this perspective - my current next door neighbour is 90+ and lives alone in a huge 4 bed house. He has carers 4 times a day, and his whole house is rigged up with cameras so his family who live the other side of the country can keep an eye on him. But because he had a stroke, he is unable to speak - a few weeks ago, his daughter phoned me because her dad had had a fall and hadn;t been able to get up for 12 hours (no idea why the carers hadn't been there that day). At this point, we need to take responsibility for ourselves and realise that as lives change, so do our accommodation needs.

Upskill carers - formal qualifications perhaps?
Why isn't there a degree/apprenticeship in care? Too many people see it as low paid profession because it's not given the same level of respect that nurses get. Really, they should be given almost equal billing - both are hugely valuable roles. If the profession was better regarded and seen as a vocation, more pay could be offered and it could be seen as a career choice with progression and banding scales rather than NMW. I guess my perception of care is that it's NMW for life, with little opportunity to progress and earn more money. If that vision could be changed, it could maybe improve the recruitment?

Re: living arrangements
how do you appeal to someone who refuses to move into something more suitable?
BTW, I agree with you - my DM did this (but she did end up moving out of her area) but I know a lot of her friends won’t as they’re ‘fine’ (when in reality they are not!) but refuse to even countenance it and say their kids are interfering when it’s suggested 🤷‍♀️

Parky04 · 31/10/2022 17:55

Waynettaaa · 31/10/2022 13:36

Doesn't help that many good care staff were sacked because they didn't want to be forced to have a covid vaccination.

Yep, my sister for one. Had to get another job, hasn't gone back to care as pay and conditions in new job are much better.

Blossomtoes · 31/10/2022 17:57

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 31/10/2022 17:45

We need to be more willing to look after our elderly ourselves?

Then we also need society to be structured in a way that allows it. That would have to start with addressing the cost of housing, which is a generational ticking time bomb.

Absolutely. And one person can’t do it. I added up that there was a team of 13 people supporting my parents in the final months before their move to a care home. Yes, 13.

Parky04 · 31/10/2022 17:58

orbitalcrisis · 31/10/2022 14:23

Council run care homes and carers would be a good start!

My grandad was in one of these, it was horrific!

Believeinyou · 31/10/2022 18:00

more funding, better pay & training for social care workers and better commissioning practices

LA need to properly assess the needs of their population, be future facing and then approach the market with proper thought out details of what they want and need - all to often private providers just open a care home business and it's not where the gaps are or what's needed

Plus GPs need to support care homes and hospitals need to have better discharge practices so
people aren't dumped back in the community without proper support from the system

the sysyem needs to work better together - at the moment health think they are better & more important than social care and that culture needs to change

LifeIsGreatForUnicorns · 31/10/2022 18:05

WeAreOnTheRoadToNowhere · 31/10/2022 15:04

I don't agree with euthanasia. Having worked in elderly care for a number of years I wouldn't trust relatives to make any decision that may impact their inheritance. Not all families of course
What I don't understand is why we keep people alive when they have no quality of life. My relative is in his 80s. He has dementia and hasn't been out of bed for 4 years. Doesn't know anyone. He would be horrified. He is on a cocktail of drugs and was treated for a chest infection in the summer. We are just forcing a long death on him and the NH are the only ones benefitting

You say you don’t agree with Euthanasia so you agree that your relative who has dementia, hasn’t left his bed for 4 years (so I presume doesn’t have much quality of life) should continue in this vein even though you say he would be horrified if he knew his actual situation?

I only ask as I read an article about a chap who had MND & went to Dignitas and his wife is campaigning for euthanasia to be legalised here in the UK (which was very moving and gave me an insight into the struggles some people face who do have a disease that means they will have no quality of life once the disease progresses and how they don’t want to end up like your relative)

Eastangular2000 · 31/10/2022 18:06

PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior · 31/10/2022 17:45

We need to be more willing to look after our elderly ourselves?

Then we also need society to be structured in a way that allows it. That would have to start with addressing the cost of housing, which is a generational ticking time bomb.

Of course if parents and offspring pooled their resources in terms of housing then a lot more people would be able to afford places that would allow them to care for their parents and it would also reduce intergenerational inequality.

Blossomtoes · 31/10/2022 18:10

Eastangular2000 · 31/10/2022 18:06

Of course if parents and offspring pooled their resources in terms of housing then a lot more people would be able to afford places that would allow them to care for their parents and it would also reduce intergenerational inequality.

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What about the number of people it takes? Was I supposed to magic up 12 siblings? And a house big enough for us all and our families?

runjy · 31/10/2022 18:12

We need more money & older people will need to tap into their equity to conjure it up.

runjy · 31/10/2022 18:14

Older people also need to be less stubborn, although I appreciate it's hard to feel like your losing control. Elderly relative keeps being horrible to their carer & we are now on number 4. They don't want live in care, don't want to go into a care home but cannot be left alone. Even refusing a stair lift.

Blossomtoes · 31/10/2022 18:15

runjy · 31/10/2022 18:12

We need more money & older people will need to tap into their equity to conjure it up.

They do. That’s why people sell their houses to pay care home fees.

Goldencarp · 31/10/2022 18:17

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 31/10/2022 13:51

A lot of people are saying 'better pay'. I agree with this but how would it be funded? I thought the average home place was over a grand a week already, I don't think many people would be able to afford more than this privately. It can't be funded centrally without a massive increase in taxes

That’s probably for the elderly. My relative has severe learning disabilities and their placement costs 5 x that. Over £5k per week. Mostly due to high support needs and having to factor the cost of agency staff into the care package.

LifeIsGreatForUnicorns · 31/10/2022 18:22

My colleagues mum is like this. ☹️
she is currently a bed blocker in the hospital as social services won’t let her out until SS go round the house to assess it (but they can’t do it for 2 weeks!)
she has Parkinson’s and lives in a top floor maisonette and keeps falling - this is a council property but they have no where to move her to!
shes 82
my colleague is struggling- she is one of 4 kids and they do share the caring but they’ve all got young (ish) kids so it’s really hard 😢

runjy · 31/10/2022 18:25

@Blossomtoes They do. That’s why people sell their houses to pay care home fees.

But that's only if they go into a care home isn't it? all care will need more funding.

runjy · 31/10/2022 18:26

There's a huge shortage of suitable housing too.
The over inflated housing market in the country has fucked everything up & it's the only source of wealth for most.