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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People are fine with being disrespectful to Christians

1000 replies

Flymetothezoom · 31/10/2022 09:34

At a church playgroup. The people who run it are very devout Christians. I am taken aback, by the number of parents, who thought it was appropriate to bring their kids to the church dressed for Halloween. Kids are dressed as witches, goblins, skeletons, creepy pumpkins etc..
The church holds a light party every year on Halloween and is very clear that they do not endorse Halloween.

OP posts:
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pewtypie · 31/10/2022 11:16

AllPlayedOut · 31/10/2022 10:15

but I agree people sneer at Christian beliefs/customs in a way they wouldn't dare to dream of behaving towards any other religion.

Hmm Every religion thinks that. I see posts from Muslims on here saying the same. I've seen it from followers of other faiths too. It's hardly surprising though if there is more focus on Christianity as it is/was the dominant religion in the U.K for so long.

Personally I think they're all equally ridiculous.

Atheism is ridiculous too. People laughing at religion and citing flying spaghetti monsters, and yet celebrating Christmas under the guise of it being a pagan festival and getting their kids christened to get them into a Christina school and to have a christening party.

WorkerBeeeee · 31/10/2022 11:16

I agree that in general society is rude about Christians. Usually portraying them as backward, intolerant lunatics.

ScarierThanBoo · 31/10/2022 11:16

Different branches of Christianity have their own individual view on Halloween. The baptist and Methodists here do not recognise the day at all as they believe that it is pagan in origin. The Catholics celebrate the day by praying for the souls of saints and family members who are suffering in purgatory and they allow celebration of the day, with particular reverence to St Michael.

Underanothersky · 31/10/2022 11:20

girlmom21 · 31/10/2022 10:29

He was always a bit dramatic though, wasn't he?

Yes, he had very very firm ideas on how we should treat children.

NormaTheWife · 31/10/2022 11:20

whumpthereitis · 31/10/2022 10:59

I imagine people level more criticism at Christianity in this country because it’s the dominant religion here, and the one that’s had the most palpable impact, for better or ill.

If the country was predominantly Muslim, or Hindu, then those would be the religions most commonly criticized.

The reason is because it is seen as OK . The minute anything critical of Islam was put on here it would be gone in an instant.

Onlyforcake · 31/10/2022 11:20

It's all souls?!! I thought Christians were very fond of cultural appropriation. After all there's Easter......
Have a soul cake and deal with it.

ArtixLynx · 31/10/2022 11:23

I'm pagan, i think your light party is fucking disrespectful.

Samhain (said sow-in) is the Celtic festival that marked summers end on the autumn solstice when the Sun God died, and left the Moon Goddess to watch over the world and mourn Him until Yule when He is reborn, and light and warmth will return.

Samhain night we stand between the seasons, and the veil between life and death thins, its a time to honour our ancestors, to light fires to scare off anything evil that might pass, and to cast into the fire anything we want to be rid of in the next cycle of the year.

Its a time to gather and support each other in the cold times ahead... something i think is even more poignant this coming winter as many will feel the cold this year.

Take your 'Light Party' that disrespects the entire point of Samhain, and makes a mockery of other religious festivals like Divali, and keep it to your damn selves.

MajorCarolDanvers · 31/10/2022 11:25

Flymetothezoom · 31/10/2022 09:45

@Intru 2 points

  1. how is asking this question on a forum “shaming” people?
  2. also how far can we take this? Should people be shamed for wearing a gimp suit to church or bondage gear, serial killer outfits? In your world are there any limits?

Are you seriously saying that parents are sending young children to playgroup in bondage gear?

Really?

PS most Christain denominations have no problem with Halloween

TeamRR · 31/10/2022 11:25

NormaTheWife · 31/10/2022 11:20

The reason is because it is seen as OK . The minute anything critical of Islam was put on here it would be gone in an instant.

jfc not this again. There have been plenty of criticisms of Islam on mn over the years that have stayed up.

KillingLoneliness · 31/10/2022 11:25

Veggieburgers · 31/10/2022 11:12

I didn't know that Christians have a problem with Halloween, (really, do they?) and I bet most other people don't either.
It's not unreasonable to expect children to dress up for Halloween on what is essentially - a Halloween party.
If the organizers had wanted something different, they should have made it very clear on the invitation.
To be honest, it's a bit 'holier than thou' to foist your ideas about dressing up onto others.

This is literally the first I’ve ever heard of Christian’s being offended by Halloween.
It’s a big deal in Ireland (from my own experience) and my catholic friends love Halloween! I’m assuming that OP doesn’t know the origins of Halloween at all, most of the religious holidays we celebrate stem from pagan roots.

NippyWoowoo · 31/10/2022 11:27

Flymetothezoom · 31/10/2022 09:40

@minou123
”Light Parties are a fantastic alternative to the Halloween activities that kick off on 31st October. Instead of children being surrounded by things that glorify the darkness, Light Parties focus on all things light, bright, and most importantly, Jesus Christ who overcame the darkness.”

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read

Flowersinamilkbottle · 31/10/2022 11:27

We hold a Light Party at our church and get around 100 children coming from local schools. There is always a theme such as superheroes or neon which will be on the flyer but every year children turn up as witches, monsters or even devils. No-one minds and every child will be told they look amazing.

I tend to think offense should only be taken if people mean to be offensive. Even then I think taking offense is a choice. I am not offended that people live their lives differently to me and have different beliefs to me. I hope they will afford me the same tolerance.

I also hope that people don't feel they have to completely change before coming into a church. People should feel they can come as they are (dressed however they want) with all their negative views about the church and Christianity. They shouldn't have to keep them quiet. I am good friends with many people from our church and we disagree hugely on different aspects of our faith. That doesn't mean we can't love and support one another. The same is true of all my friends (and family) from outside the church too. I have a couple of friends who tease me about the sky fairy I believe in. But to be honest I see it as a mark of affection!

Treaclemine · 31/10/2022 11:27

One year I had a bit of a row with our year leader who was evangelical and emphatic that no mention was to be made of it. I usually did a thing linking with remembering the dead at All Hallows and All Souls and Remembrance Sunday/Armistice. I couldn't argue with her - she was very no debate, and I came out of our planning meeting very angry - this must have been after actual Halloween as I used my anger to storm off south, ignor all the police warnings about the place I was headed for and so, for the first time in my life, got to see Lewes Bonfire. (Had family connections before my time.)
But I can't forget her attitude. You'd have thought I'd suggested enacting a Black Mass. Christianity should not be about being afraid.

NotSorry · 31/10/2022 11:28

BlueBar · 31/10/2022 09:45

I think it's just that people don't understand it's not the done thing for church groups. Halloween is just an excuse the dress up, people don't think about the meaning behind it or the way it sits with Christianity.

It's lack of knowledge/understanding rather than disrespect.

But then again, from some of the responses here, maybe you're right OP.

Agree, we are a church based cub pack and we don’t do anything for halloween on church premises

butterfliedtwo · 31/10/2022 11:30

ArtixLynx · 31/10/2022 11:23

I'm pagan, i think your light party is fucking disrespectful.

Samhain (said sow-in) is the Celtic festival that marked summers end on the autumn solstice when the Sun God died, and left the Moon Goddess to watch over the world and mourn Him until Yule when He is reborn, and light and warmth will return.

Samhain night we stand between the seasons, and the veil between life and death thins, its a time to honour our ancestors, to light fires to scare off anything evil that might pass, and to cast into the fire anything we want to be rid of in the next cycle of the year.

Its a time to gather and support each other in the cold times ahead... something i think is even more poignant this coming winter as many will feel the cold this year.

Take your 'Light Party' that disrespects the entire point of Samhain, and makes a mockery of other religious festivals like Divali, and keep it to your damn selves.

This, quite frankly.

SnoozyLucy7 · 31/10/2022 11:31

120go · 31/10/2022 10:47

YANBU

Christians are disrespected relentlessly in this country, just the sad reality to be honest.

Things will only get worse in general society, morals are already in the dumpster, and we can see the dire consequences all around.

The hardship does build character though for those who stay true to their belief in God.

And in turn your reward will come on judgement day.

Morals in the dumpster? No religion holds a monopoly over what is moral or not. Plenty of church going religious people with very low morals, and who are not good people, plenty of non religious people with great morals who are amazing human beings. Good grief.

ancientgran · 31/10/2022 11:32

ArtixLynx · 31/10/2022 11:23

I'm pagan, i think your light party is fucking disrespectful.

Samhain (said sow-in) is the Celtic festival that marked summers end on the autumn solstice when the Sun God died, and left the Moon Goddess to watch over the world and mourn Him until Yule when He is reborn, and light and warmth will return.

Samhain night we stand between the seasons, and the veil between life and death thins, its a time to honour our ancestors, to light fires to scare off anything evil that might pass, and to cast into the fire anything we want to be rid of in the next cycle of the year.

Its a time to gather and support each other in the cold times ahead... something i think is even more poignant this coming winter as many will feel the cold this year.

Take your 'Light Party' that disrespects the entire point of Samhain, and makes a mockery of other religious festivals like Divali, and keep it to your damn selves.

If you are running a playgroup in a pagan establishment and someone turns up dressed for a light party I'd agree with you. People choosing how to behave (within the law) in their own establishments is none of your business.

Onlyforcake · 31/10/2022 11:32

Christians being ignorant of their own tradition stealing faith is always a good read though.

NippyWoowoo · 31/10/2022 11:33

Flymetothezoom · 31/10/2022 09:45

@Intru 2 points

  1. how is asking this question on a forum “shaming” people?
  2. also how far can we take this? Should people be shamed for wearing a gimp suit to church or bondage gear, serial killer outfits? In your world are there any limits?

Well for starters, a child dressing up as a witch isn't part of a sexual fetish.

And please tell me how one dresses as a serial killer? Ted Bundy didn't walk around wearing a sign, did he? Pretty sure he just wore regular clothes, he'd have fit right in at church Halloween Grin

arctica · 31/10/2022 11:34

Powderandpaint · 31/10/2022 10:53

@arctica You can't complain about being disrespected in one breath and threaten people with judgement day in the next.

Why not?
It's not going to bother those that don't believe it!

The intent behind the threat is still there. The disrespect and contempt oozes from it, and the snide comment about morals. To say that and then whine about being disrespected is unbelievably hypocritical.

FamilyTreeBuilder · 31/10/2022 11:37

My kids went to a playgroup/preschool in a space rented from the Baptist Church.

They were VERY anti Halloween. Our playgroup was inclusive and secular, but obviously they were our landlord and we had to respect their wishes. They also banned any alcohol on the premises at all times, which meant lots of raffle prizes being handed out from car boots in the car park. Personally I thought they were barking, but we paid lip service to their requests.

At Halloween we held a "dressing up" party and asked parents if possible not to send their children dressed as the devil or a witch as the Baptists would object. We were not allowed to decorate for Halloween. We also had a blanket ban on masks, but that is fairly standard for 3 and 4 year olds. Some parents ignored the requests and sent their kids as zombies anyway, we didn't turn them away.

Worki · 31/10/2022 11:38

ArtixLynx · 31/10/2022 11:23

I'm pagan, i think your light party is fucking disrespectful.

Samhain (said sow-in) is the Celtic festival that marked summers end on the autumn solstice when the Sun God died, and left the Moon Goddess to watch over the world and mourn Him until Yule when He is reborn, and light and warmth will return.

Samhain night we stand between the seasons, and the veil between life and death thins, its a time to honour our ancestors, to light fires to scare off anything evil that might pass, and to cast into the fire anything we want to be rid of in the next cycle of the year.

Its a time to gather and support each other in the cold times ahead... something i think is even more poignant this coming winter as many will feel the cold this year.

Take your 'Light Party' that disrespects the entire point of Samhain, and makes a mockery of other religious festivals like Divali, and keep it to your damn selves.

Also pagan, I agree.
I think being disrespectful is the point though. Every christain I have ever met who regularly goes to church holds some pretty extreme views and very intolerant.
Pagan is a dirty word to them, an insult.

NippyWoowoo · 31/10/2022 11:41

Christians are disrespected relentlessly in this country, just the sad reality to be honest.

Things will only get worse in general society, morals are already in the dumpster, and we can see the dire consequences all around

And this is why Christianity gets a bad rap. Because of ridiculous views that people not following the faith is the reason for the 'decline' is society.

And I'd say this of any other faith that spouted this crap.

whumpthereitis · 31/10/2022 11:42

NormaTheWife · 31/10/2022 11:20

The reason is because it is seen as OK . The minute anything critical of Islam was put on here it would be gone in an instant.

You haven’t look very hard if you think that. There’s been plenty of criticism leveled against Islam, and indeed religion in general. Islam however is a minority religion in the uk. There are churches on every corner, not mosques. Christianity is the dominant religion in the UK, and therefore it’s unsurprising that it takes the lions share of criticism (if it in fact does).

MithrilCostsMore · 31/10/2022 11:43

Even my childrens devout Catholic school used to hold a halloween disco.

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