People are fine with being disrespectful to Christians

[Flymetothezoom]

At a church playgroup. The people who run it are very devout Christians. I am taken aback, by the number of parents, who thought it was appropriate to bring their kids to the church dressed for Halloween. Kids are dressed as witches, goblins, skeletons, creepy pumpkins etc..
The church holds a light party every year on Halloween and is very clear that they do not endorse Halloween.

I don’t agree that choosing a worldview is entirely a matter of taking a leap of faith. I think people can consider the available evidence as objectively as they can manage.

I don't think there's any objective evidence of the existence of a god. I've had this debate many times and not seen any. Saying 'look how complex life is, it can't be coincidence' - yes, it can. Biology, physics and maths are not evidence of the existence of a god. But of course as a theist, you would feel differently.

The Reformation was 500 years ago. But new sects continue to proliferate. Consider the term Fundamentalist. Based on a book produced after a conference in Chicago in 1920 , which was called The Fundamentals.

The Anglican philosopher Keith Ward gives the clearest description of the various strands within Christianity I think.

Modern Western paganism is largely a construct. But if you look at non-Western cultures through the literature of anthropological research, it's a different matter. Lots of different cultures, lots of different practices, absolutely not all patriarchal and patrilineal.

LOL yeah I only meant relatively new in the history of Christianity as a whole (we Orthodox are still shaking our heads in disbelief over the Great Schism lol) and definitely very new in terms of human spiritual and ritualistic practice as a whole.

Rituals around the dead, warding them off, welcoming them, protecting ourselves against them, honouring them, imitating them, are extremely old and Hallowe'en is a fossilised version of those rituals.

But men can father children! Don't you think that's a privilege?

Telling women "Oh, of course women are equal to men, but men should be the only ones in position of power" is the oldest trick in the book. I can't believe so many women still fall for it.

Don’t you think it’s likely that religions impact the cultures they are based on?

I haven’t heard of FGM being practised in predominantly Christian countries in Africa. Which countries do you mean?

I didn’t say that everything bad in every culture springs from that culture’s religion. Some practices that I would regard as wrong (of course, if there is no objective standard, there is no objective right or wrong) are found throughout history and all over the world, such as slavery, women being regarded as the property of their fathers and husbands, and young people being married off for political purposes. Therefore I would not blame Christianity for these.

Whereas the ways I mentioned above that women tend to be treated in Islamic cultures are all based on the Islamic sources.

Corsets don’t come into the Bible! 😁

Don’t you think it’s likely that religions impact the cultures they are based on?

I think that's likely to be a two way process and not always a benign one.

The more oppressive parts of Islam's treatment of women do not come directly from the Qur'an but from the interpretations of (male) scholars of those texts. Make of that what you will.

So you don't think that giving birth and creating new life is not only a privilege but a very special and unique ability? (And something that men will never have.)

how is it special and unique, statements that suggest that it is in any way a rarity? Any animal with a functioning reproductive system can do it.

Neither sex can reproduce in the same way their counterpart can, one is not more ‘special’ than the other.

anyway, increasing amounts of people are voluntarily opting out of having children at all. Valuing them on account of their reproductive capacity is entirely redundant in those cases. Actually it’s entirely redundant at all, people generally prefer to be seen as more than their biological functions. How I choose to live my life is defined by me, I have no more interest in being defined by my uterus and (yeeted) fallopian tubes than I do my lungs.

So you don't think that giving birth and creating new life is not only a privilege but a very special and unique ability?

Can't say I found what it did to my body, or the resulting trauma, to be much of a privilege.

@Skye99 - Your views on Islam are ignorant and insulting frankly. The religious superiority you are displaying is ugly and really has no foundation in reality. Are you Born Again by any chance?

As for FGM in African countries, Wikipedia is your friend. In many African countries women of different religions are victim to this at similar rates. It’s a cultural practise predating the religion imposed on those countries.

ZoeCM
But men can father children! Don't you think that's a privilege?

What? For doing something that last 15 seconds ? Give me a break.
A woman has 9 months to carry, nurture and support an unborn human being.
There is no greater responsibility or privilege IMO.

I'm sorry you don't seem to agree with that.

If women want to be 'in power' there are lots of avenues that they can explore, and I'm sorry you can't see that either.

Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to do this for All Souls Day ? They light graves with candles in Scandinavia for all souls.

It's very revealing when the mask slips. Some pretty backward ideas being touted as 'right' from Christians that know best.

Must remember that my third degree tear is a gift from your god. Thanks for that.

@SnoozyLucy7 Equality in the work place is far from having been achieved, and there are billion and more glass ceilings that need to be smashed. The fight is far from over and woman have to face so much shit daily. But ultimately, my point is that that for many, work place discrimination and inequality is unacceptable and yet in the same breath, many will accept and whole heartedly condone the discrimination and inequality that woman face in that said religious organisation, to their detriment.

Women (and men) should stop wasting energy trying to fight battles they can't win.
If women want to have a career in the priesthood then most Christian denominations make that possible. So why get all upset about those few that have a glass ceiling?
The same applies to medicine, law, politics.
If you are good enough, you'll get there.
(Having said that, it's amazing that the Labour party with all it's talk about equality hasn't produced a Prime Minister or even a Party Leader in all it's history?)
Maybe Socialist career women should do something about that instead of whinging about perceived 'discrimination' in the church.

Don’t forget the morning sickness/hair loss/ PND/ spider veins/ stretch marks and on and on and on. We are so blessed with all our “gifts”. I even got given sepsis, lucky me! Or perhaps that was a punishment for being such a heathen…

@SingUsASongYoureThePenileMan Must remember that my third degree tear is a gift from your god. Thanks for that.

It's a gift you chose to accept. No-one forced you to have a child, so don't blame God for your choice.

Doesn't the Bible say that misery in childbirth was Eve's punishment over the whole apple debacle?

I know the New Testament is supposed to override that, but you've still got Paul telling women they can't teach or speak over men or do their hair, so I don't think all is forgiven.

It's great when women have a positive pregnancy/labour experience but I have to reject this idea that it's something we need to be so grateful for that we shouldn't see how it disadvantages and contributes to our oppression at a class level. I don't think I've ever known a man to envy it.

While not coerced the want to reproduce is baked into the cake of all living things that you believe your god is the Baker of. Surely he could have found a more pleasant way for the ones made in his image to give birth?

Oh get away. It's not a gift, it's a risk she chose to take because she couldn't have a child any other way. That's the way it is, but she doesn't have to be glad to be injured or permanently damaged and neither do I or anyone else.

If she hadn't had a child, your brand of religion (which exists whether you're genuine or not) would have been all up in arms about that.

@ReneBumsWombats If she hadn't had a child, your brand of religion (which exists whether you're genuine or not) would have been all up in arms about that.

I never said any such thing. Please don't misquote me. No religion I know of says a women is forced to reproduce. (Apart from the Quiverfull movement)

So you don't think that giving birth and creating new life is not only a privilege but a very special and unique ability?

Only women can give birth.

Women and men together create life.

Women are the only ones who do the physically dangerous and painful bit of the process due to biology. What a privilege.

@SingUsASongYoureThePenileMan

It's very revealing when the mask slips.

Isn't it just? I said upthread that on threads like this, the snarky and patronising responses aren't exactly one way.

Many self proclaimed Christians seem to act in a very unchristian way (snarky, patronising, pious) when asked questions or challenged about elements of their faith, rather than simply saying what they believe or feel, even if it's unpalatable.

I genuinely haven't seen that type of response from many Muslim or Jewish (for example) posters.

I dare say the slave trade would’ve been nowhere near as successful without Christianity.