People are fine with being disrespectful to Christians

[Flymetothezoom]

At a church playgroup. The people who run it are very devout Christians. I am taken aback, by the number of parents, who thought it was appropriate to bring their kids to the church dressed for Halloween. Kids are dressed as witches, goblins, skeletons, creepy pumpkins etc..
The church holds a light party every year on Halloween and is very clear that they do not endorse Halloween.

@ZoeCM OP, the Bible teaches that if a rape victim isn't heard screaming for help, she should be executed because she must have secretly been enjoying it. If you're not offended by the Bible, but ARE offended by toddlers dressed as pumpkins, then your sense of morality is rather skewed.

You are taking that out of context.

What you are quoting is the Old Testament, specifically Leviticus. That book was a set of 'rules for living' given to the Jewish people by their elders. Christians follow the teachings of the New Testament which supersedes that.

I know a wonderful little girl who loves dressing up as a witch, regardless of Halloween and would have turned up at a playgroup dressed that way throughout the year. The light party or Halloween really have nothing to do with it, it's a playgroup and kids can come anytime wearing dress up.

@Powderandpaint

Firstly I am curious to know who has told you that, and secondly if you don't believe it, then it doesn't matter does it?

This works both ways though.

If someone (I don't do this, but for arguments sake) says to a Christian person that their beliefs are rooted in structures that oppress women, hold up the patriarchy, take advantage of poor people and that god is a sky fairy, then that doesn't matter either? Because the Christian person they're saying it to doesn't believe those things.

So a Christian doing the 'why does it matter if you don't believe in hell?' thing should accept that it's a two way street and if they believe in god, it shouldn't matter what other people say about their religion at all.

I personally think both sides can be respectful. But your logic is doesn't encourage respect at all.

@Powderandpaint - right, but Christians believe the God of the Old and New Testament are the same person. They believe Leviticus no longer applies because it's redundant and the rules changed when Jesus "fulfilled the law", not because it's morally abhorrent. They worship a God who ordered rape victims to be executed.

@monsteramunch But your logic is doesn't encourage respect at all.

Why?

If an atheist woman has been raped (just an example) and someone religious said to them that they won't ever be able to go to heaven as god sees them as unclean (again, not specifying a religion, it's just an example) would you say "well you don't believe in god so why does it matter?"

Or would you think the person was being disrespectful and cruel?

Potentially a controversial opinion but I think churches should do things that serve the community, like putting on playgroups that are open to all and that don’t have an overtly Christian tone or require people to comply with Christian opinions

Churches are also charities and the church in general is quite wealthy, not least because of all the land it owns. Giving back to the community is both right and the Christian thing to do surely?

I think you mean the Church of England. They tend to have people employed to work for them and do own land. Some churches do. But some churches are very small, and don't get any funding from anyone except their own members. I think that if you are asking people to volunteer their own time to run a group in their own building (that they pay for) it's fair enough if they want to run it according to their beliefs.

@ZoeCM They worship a God who ordered rape victims to be executed.

God didn't order that at all. Men did, because they were acting within the cultures of the times. in those days neither woman or children had any 'rights'.
The Bible does describe some disturbing episodes. However, these show an important Bible-reading rule: just because the Bible records it doesn’t mean God recommends it. The Bible is not evil because of the evil deeds it describes any more than high school history textbooks are anti-Semitic because they document the Holocaust.

It does happen.

A clearly mentally unwell homeless woman told me I would 'burn in hell' for studying medicine because science is a sin. It's equal parts funny (the ridiculous of her rant) and sad (because she clearly had a lot going on in her head and needed some help possibly why she was targeting medical students).

Theres also a street preacher where I live too with an amp and microphone who yells at people to repent and quotes random bible passages. As far as Im aware hes not part of any of the 5 churches on the street (reform, CofE, catholic, mormon, methodist) just some random lone man shouting at people but hes there every week for years (I think he has a permit too as he shows up only on days with permited preformaces allowed). Wierdly bizaare but people just go about their day and he mildly irratating but not hurting anyone.

I thought churches receiving funding was based upon them becoming centres of charity and outreach to the community..

I don't think they are allowed to dictate which individuals they offer 'outreach' to, there are rules.
Also it's fucking immoral not to offer baby groups which are a lifeline to struggling mums when there are no surestart centres anymore, based on their religious beliefs or lack of.

Think it's high time so called Christians walked the walk and did the things they supposedly admire Jesus so much for. Welcoming those we disagree with, not judging etc.

@monsteramunch If an atheist woman has been raped (just an example) and someone religious said to them that they won't ever be able to go to heaven as god sees them as unclean (again, not specifying a religion, it's just an example) would you say "well you don't believe in god so why does it matter?"
Or would you think the person was being disrespectful and cruel?

That's a 'straw man argument' which is fallacious.

CofE has annual income of £1billion from its £9 billion of investments, £300 odd million off of the congregations and £40 odd million from the taxpayer. I wouldn’t worry about them too much.

No it isn’t. It’s a valid question.

@SingUsASongYoureThePenileMan Also it's fucking immoral not to offer baby groups which are a lifeline to struggling mums when there are no surestart centres anymore, based on their religious beliefs or lack of.

I do not know of any mother-and-baby groups that discriminate in the way you suggest.
However, what I have seen here are loads of posts from mums complaining that these groups start and end with a prayer.
It seems the churches concerned can't do right for doing wrong.

@Mapleapple It’s a valid question.

I have already said it's a 'Straw Man argument'.

A strawman is a fallacious argument that distorts an opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack. Essentially, the person using the strawman (you) pretends to attack their opponent’s stance, while in reality they are actually attacking a distorted version of that stance, which their opponent (me) doesn’t necessarily support.

So its wrong to make believe about imaginary characters that may have risen from the dead? Christians confuse me

@Powderandpaint, Deuteronomy isn't just describing things men did. Christians believe it was divinely inspired, and the instructions within were given by God.

Can you just answer the question?

Well said.

@Powderandpaint - it is because you said so? Ok then. I am aware of what a straw man is. Let me make it simpler then.

You are saying that there is something you believe is the worst thing that could ever happen to someone, and in your world it’s just ok to tell them that it will happen to them, because they don’t believe it so no harm done. That’s not cruel or unkind in your opinion?

@SnoozyLucy7 Can you just answer the question?

I have, at 15.40.

The op is suggesting they discriminate like that, or they should do.
The whole point being they get money to do community outreach..if they deliberately exclude, or put on ridiculous caveats, it's not charity.

What is confusing?

I am not a Christian, but I grew up attending church and school. We wore all sorts of costumes and no one ever said a single word. Even the nuns were fine with the creepy aspects of Halloween. Op, your church is following one specific interpretation of the holiday, but it is far from universal. Saying that everyone should be familiar with your particular interpretation is the source of all this conflict. Most people don’t want to be disrespectful.

I never brought my child to church based playgroups because I knew that I wouldn’t be able to fit in well and might be unwilling to follow all rules depending on the particular location. Not attending was me being respectful. I happily had my children play with those same kids and chatted with those same moms in more secular settings.

I find that the more moderate Christians, and frankly the nicest, are those that view their religion in the context of the time it was created, and acknowledge that it has some very dark and more than unsavoury elements to it, but they live trying to embrace the best parts such as unconditional love, community, charity. I would argue you don’t need to be Christian to do these things, but I accept those that believe, believe these teachings came from Jesus.

Then you have dogmatic Christian posters who live up to all the negative stereotypes and want to preach and shame. They really embrace the judgement part of their religion. If it’s real I hope the nicer ones are right and the others are left very confused as St Peter turns them away.