To think talk of people having to find better paid jobs unrealistic?

[vinoinveritas]

I have heard a lot of politicians and people generally in the media etc talk about how people need to find better paid jobs to cope with the rising cost of living. Am I alone in finding this frankly unreasonable and unrealistic ? Some of us have got limited means to retrain! Training costs time and money. I am currently working full time in a public sector role where there has been a pay freeze for 7 years!! My family commitments mean I can’t just get any job with evening hours etc as I wouldn’t be able to pay the childcare.

I look at Job ads and just do not see many highly paid roles advertised, particularly in my area (rural midlands). My father told me I chose the wrong sector and should find a job in finance. He knows I’m rubbish with numbers (just passed GCSE maths with a grade C) and moving job sector in your 40’s-50’s isn’t straightforward. I’d probably have to take a pay cut initially which would put me back at square one!

It isn't entirely possible to retrain out of a low wage job into a senior well paid post just because you want to.

What if you don't have the opportunity or the skills, education or intelligence to get that well paid post; millions of people don't and it's these low paid workers that keep the country functioning at the lower level.

Their roles are massively important and they should be able to earn enough to pay for a roof over their heads, food on their tables, and the cost of heating their homes.

It's not a case of being 'prepared to make sacrifices'.

You're naïve in the extreme if you think that all it takes is a bit of 'sacrifice'. For many there is no way out of the poverty they're trapped in.

@Newnameoclock it’s a shit fact of society is that there will always be people
who struggle and people who don’t

It’s not a fact of society, at all. It’s a fact that some will earn less and some will earn more. The “struggle” is not being able to afford rent, heat and food. Our lowest paid workers should not go without those basic necessities. I won’t accept that it’s a shit fact of society that they have to.

we need the community resources to support them. You get angry, as do I, that society is like this at the moment but don't offer up any realistic solutions to it

The old "I think you can't so you shouldn't try" attitude. Education and intelligence isn't just around academics. Education and intelligence is around appropriate skills based training, how to run a business (for tradespeople etc), how to innovate and fill a gap. Plenty of poorly educated people are great entrepreneurs for example. Differently intelligent.

If you are told your whole life you can't because you're in poverty would you ever try? Probably not. Would your motivation be non existent? Absolutely. Why bother trying? So how about changing the script. Life is shit for you let's work on making it less shit. What are the skills deficits in your area? Ok let's work on fixing that.

Not even on a work level. Your estate is looking like shit? Why? Can we get together to improve how it looks? Ask the council for funds for litter grabbers and bin bags and get a work force together. Community garden or park or church yard needs rejuvenating? Got a spare hour or two? Chip in and see if you can help fix that. Not sitting back in defeated resignation of "this is just how it is"

The cost of living is horrendous and getting worse, we can't raise the NMW because that will make the situation worse again, so we need to think of other ways around it. I've said several times I agree these roles are important and fundamental to how we operate, but respect that some people don't want to sit in these jobs for life and support them out of them.

Call me a naive idealist but if you want to change things you actually have to get off your arse and change it.

Careers advice for adults should be a thing if it isn't already a thing

The old "I think you can't so you shouldn't try" attitude.

That's not what I'm saying at all, and no, I wouldn't call you a "naïve idealist".

Some people just do not have the wherewithal to "get off their arses" and change things. They just don't have the mental capacity, the drive or the ability to make such changes to their lives.

Many people would not know how to start going about making such changes.

Many people don't want to become managers.

Not everyone wants what you want.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid a living wage, one that covers the necessities of life.

I haven't said they all want what I want. I've said people should be supported to live the best version of the lives they want to live. Just in a very long winded way.

Call me a naive idealist but if you want to change things you actually have to get off your arse and change it.

So if I just try really hard, I can magic up reliable, affordable childcare for the hours I need. The fact it doesn't exist is just me not trying hard enough.
Cool story bro.

I'm not saying what I'm writing will work or is the right way or the only way. It's just A way.

It's unrealistic, you're right. Besides, someone has to do these low paid jobs. The problem starts when low paid job doesn't cover basic needs 🙄Not everyone has the same set of skills. We can't be all bankers, doctors and software engineers.

I want to be a space engineer. I can’t add for toffee and have zero understanding of basic physics let alone space physics - but hey - if I WANT it enough and TRY HARD enough I’m sure that won’t matter right? I’m sure my dyscalculia and failure to be able to spot my own mathematical mistakes won’t matter too much right? Because I REALLY WANT IT.

It exists, but is crap, at least the public options.

I think that it is easy for certain people to say - just get a better job. Yes you like a better paying job but you could need X person to leave the job above you in order to apply. Then how many other co workers will do the same?
For certain jobs they want people available 7 days a week and this won't suit everyone.
I know mother's who work around childcare provided by family members because without this it would not pay them to work.

I know people as well that have elderly parents who need extra support or care and because of this they can't change jobs or take on more hours in work.

The reality for people is that their are trying to make the best of their current situation. Yes they want a better job but re training can be expensive and time consuming when your already working and you need that income to pay bills and to bring up kids.
Then in some jobs people know the next step up in their company requires that they work more hours/weekends and with a lot more hassle for say an extra £2 an hour before tax. So they decide that it's not worth it because of the stress and loss of time.
To get better money most people have to move companies and that can take time depending on your area and qualifications. If your job is stable you may not want to move for just a 12 month contract.

The main problem for a lot of people is the cost of housing. Rent has gone up a lot and it harder to get places. Then some people get help with rent due to being on benefits/a lower income. If they get a job or more income they can end up being worse off because having to pay the full rent.
For people with mortgages the costs are rising so people are finding it harder. Some people are good to manage money and the only debit they have is a mortgage. If you only have X income and your mortgage goes up a few hundred pounds a month you trying to pay it along with all the other bills and food that have gone up as well.
The last thing you want to hear from an MP is to get a better job when they have no idea what is like in the real world for a lot of people now.

That's not what I'm saying and you know it 🙄

Anyone working full time in a min wage job should be able to afford to pay the basics and eat.

@Newnameoclock self fulfilling prophecy.
I can absolutely see what you meant and I agree.

It does honestly seem to be what you’re insinuating.
You’ve talked about how you got into a better paid job as a single parent and how your teen got promoted to supervisor. The only relevance for including these personal experiences is to make the point of: if we can do it, why can’t they? They obviously just aren’t trying hard enough.

@Newnameoclock
Not sitting back in defeated resignation of "this is just how it is"

Someone in a low paid job, with no progression and no development opportunities. No childcare to support further education. No real prospect of ever earning more. They are sitting back in defeated resignation of “this is just how it is”.

A few posts back you told us that it’s a shit fact of society that some people have to struggle and some don’t. So you’re saying that we should accept that our lowest paid workers must always struggle, because it’s a shit fact of society. While the individuals who are experiencing that struggle, shouldn’t be sitting back in defeated resignation.

You are not being unreasonable. Some of the hardest jobs are the lowest paid.
Even on MN you hear 'Well, just retrain' as if it's that easy.

@Newnameoclock

Perhaps I was being a little facetious there.

But your post did absolute stink of ‘they just aren’t trying hard enough’.

I will never have a highly paid job. Why? Because I was abused as a child, my education severely disrupted and my mental health is not permanently effected. Nevertheless I have worked hard and work full time in a job I live in the NHS. But I cannot progress any ‘higher’ - because I don’t have the required qualification level.

I have never been able to afford to stop work and go back to study. I though I might now be able to just about scrape enough to afford it whilst getting into more debt, whilst also working full time, my MH would not allow me to do so. I know my limits. I also have two disabled children who I have to support.

So you can fuck right off telling me that ‘I could afford to buy a house if I just got a better job - I could get a better job if I just tried hard enough’.

It is all I can do to SURVIVE everyday.

YANBU - you can't expect everyone to get a better paid job of 100s of 1000s of jobs don't pay enough to live on!

These people seem to live 50 years in the past where you turn up somewhere and just ask for a job and get it if it's free. The world isn't like that.

As others have said, there are also so many other issues around caring responsibilities that complicate things.

I work in childcare which is notoriously underpaid. But as a single parent, it just about works

To earn more, I’d have to retrain and then have childcare costs too which defeats the object of earning more. Who then will do the low paid childcare job I’ve left?

Who then will do the low paid childcare job I’ve left?

I asked this a while ago on a thread like this, encompassing most of the low paid jobs as well as childcare and was told by more than one person that 'someone' will, students, people wanting a second income, retired people........ Conveniently ignoring that employers want full flexibility for these types of jobs, they want you on a zero hour contract but available at the drop of a hat.
Also conveniently forgetting that people want good value and service from these jobs, they want competent and experienced staff to take care of their children or loved ones, they want flawless service in a restaurant, they want good deals and staff who know what they're doing in shops - but also want everyone with those skills to deliver to be off getting another job to get paid enough to live on rather than those jobs paying enough to live on.

Can't have it all ways 🤷🏼‍♀️

To those who find it tricky seeing past the end of their own nose think of it this way, isn't it necessary for those doing essential and highly valuable jobs lin areas like education and health care to be reasonably well? Would you like the person looking after your relative at a hospital to be tired from long term stress and hunger? Would you like the person who looks after your children while they're at school to be so? You can't expect a basic standard of work from people who aren't afforded a basic standard of living. It isn't a choice in working hard when you go home to a cold house and you can't afford a good diet. There are cterrible consequences to the terrible state they are in.

There's one of these posts every month on here.

I try to care but it's hard to keep caring when people just want to have a moan and do nothing.

There is something called a poverty mentality. Something usually modeled or learned from their family.

They wonder why people avoid them. It depressing to see the people do the same thing over and over expecting a different result. To blame everyone else but always have a pack of excuses why they can't do anything differently. Being around crabs in a pot drags you down. They in turn drag their children down and they repeat the same thing generation after generation.

Maybe it makes me uncaring but at this point I'm not sure why I should care?