To think talk of people having to find better paid jobs unrealistic?

[vinoinveritas]

I have heard a lot of politicians and people generally in the media etc talk about how people need to find better paid jobs to cope with the rising cost of living. Am I alone in finding this frankly unreasonable and unrealistic ? Some of us have got limited means to retrain! Training costs time and money. I am currently working full time in a public sector role where there has been a pay freeze for 7 years!! My family commitments mean I can’t just get any job with evening hours etc as I wouldn’t be able to pay the childcare.

I look at Job ads and just do not see many highly paid roles advertised, particularly in my area (rural midlands). My father told me I chose the wrong sector and should find a job in finance. He knows I’m rubbish with numbers (just passed GCSE maths with a grade C) and moving job sector in your 40’s-50’s isn’t straightforward. I’d probably have to take a pay cut initially which would put me back at square one!

No, I get it. It's not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination! But it doesn't stop people looking for side step moves and getting job hunting though, or asking for more hours. I have an older teen who recently got promoted into a supervisor post in their Saturday job, so the posts are out there, and it's small steps like that people could make. It doesn't have to be going from frontline to senior management as your only option. If your current company doesn't have a space, someone else will, especially in care and customer service work.

Lone parenting and working is hard but the government could help by provision of wrap round care in all primary schools, not provided by teachers necessarily (more job creation there??) then parents (who am I kidding, it's mainly mother's this affects!) could increase their hours etc etc etc.

Thing is, we are experiencing a recruitment crisis in areas like health care and social care, and wages are not rising, employers are wringing their hands and saying they don't know what to do, blaming the work shy and feckless for not wanting a job at all, or that benefits provide too much of a comfortable life, and that's severely impacting on what care is available and being delivered, they're not taking responsibility for the fact they are driving people out of these roles because they're poorly paid and poorly treated (which is usually all about saving money and increasing profit) and they're not addressing these issues to ensure they do have a viable work force, they're blaming everyone else.

And the government/the get a better job brigade are fully supportive of that with this notion of everyone just going out and getting a better job then the problem is solved.

I've worked in low paid jobs my whole working life - no one seems to have any issues at all with using the services these positions provide - until - a) there's not enough people to provide them and then there's complaints about the level of service and
-b) a discussion about low wages comes up and then it's a lot of mental gymnastics to blame the people doing the jobs and providing the service for not being inspired/hard working/good enough.

I agree the health and social care sector (primarily social care as it very much is the health sectors poor relation) needs a huge amount of money piled into it - and not just to be creamed off as profit for the owners! Care work needs promoting as a valid career path in schools to fill the staffing hole too.

None of it is a quick fix.

Other than anything else, if everyone jumped ship from the lowest paid jobs, the country would be in a mess anyway. People (particularly politicians, I think) completely underestimate how vital these 'lower paid workers' are to keeping the country running. What would happen if they didn't do their jobs? People need to earn what they deserve for the work they put into it.

It's the kind of crap the politicians say to victim blame. Clearly we can't all be Elon Musk. There are jobs in the world, more at the bottom than at the top. We can't all be the boss or the manager or the big finance guy. While it is true you just need to be better than the other people to get the better job. Equally, in every job application, there is a best candidate that gets the job, and many who aren't quite good enough.

Like you admit yourself, it's not something everybody can do. I'm no good at science or technical subjects or anything practical like trades so I will never get a very well-paid job. I've done the best I can, which is working somewhere that pays more for length of service, but I'm never going to be an engineer or a plumber or a scientist.

It is the typical Tory attitude of blaming poor people for being poor.
After 12 years of their mismanagement, the UK is now a rather poor country which just happens to have some rather rich people living in it - making average per capita stats look a lot better than they should.
The reasons we are now so poor is successive governments' failure to invest in infrastructure and housing for many decades, coupled with the Tory austerity's depressionary effects on the economy. And they're about to double down on it. We're going to get a lot poorer still over the next couple of years.

If everyone in lower paid jobs tried to tackle the issue by moving jobs either within their current organisation or by job hunting for another, there wouldn’t be enough positions for these people and even if there were, who then would be doing the jobs they’ve moved from?
The lower paid jobs have to be done by someone. Those people don’t deserve to live in such poverty that they can’t afford to heat their homes. The problem isn’t about people’s lack of ambition, or their inability to get promoted like your teen did.
I do understand where you’re coming from as someone who has clearly worked hard for a more comfortable life, but encouraging everyone to do the same just isn’t a viable solution to the problems our country are facing.

This is a very roundabout way of saying that you're perfectly fine with slavery as it's just what the 'markets' need to sustain the economy

And if you read my other posts you'll see I've said just that.

It's a shit fact of society there will always be people who struggle and people who don't, it's just how society operates. At least now we are in a situation where as a society we have protective factors like food banks in place, it was a whole lot worse without them!

As much as people can't all job hop we also can't blindly increase wages because this then knocks on up the chain and we are back to square one where the bottom of the pile are still worse off and struggling because companies have to increase costs to pay increased wage bills and NI contributions etc...

There isn't a solution besides job hopping and setting up community services and charities to mop up those who really need support.

There's another thread running ATM about customer service and how bad it is - this I think is a symptom of the low wages that these jobs attract, and the low respect they're given because of that.
Companies are not investing in the thing that keeps their customers happy and returning spends money - their staff. And when the company treats it's staff badly then customers will follow suit.

We've come to see (as a society) staff in these jobs as a necessary evil, cut them to the bone and treat and pay them badly, then blame them for it.

“Get a better paid job then” is a lot like saying “well have you tried… NOT being poor?”

I worked hard to get out of the poverty I grew up in (isn’t that what Tories are always saying people should do?) and spent 15 years training and working towards the role I have now. I love my job, I provide a public service, and the company has invested in me. I’m paid decently for the sector and get a small annual pay rise, and yet I’m feeling very squeezed. Can’t move up even if i wanted to because I report to the CEO. So should I bin it off now then and become an investment banker? 🙄

Of course it’s nonsense trotted out by politicians with an interest in distracting from the real causes of problems. But you’ll still get people agreeing with them and insisting we should all be working ourselves to death for a pittance and fighting among ourselves like rats for the few better paid jobs around!

We need to look at this the reverse way round- the reason people can't manage (for many) is expensive private rents, particularly in certain areas and the southern half of the Uk particularly or very high mortgages unless you got on the ladder years and years ago. A total lack of truly affordable housing has created a much bigger issue than there needs to be- if there was far more of it the state wouldn't need to subsidise it nearly as much as it has to- even then if you are in private rental sector the state levels payable are incredibly low compared to what the actual costs genuinely are

No, I get it. It's not a quick fix by any stretch of the imagination! But it doesn't stop people looking for side step moves and getting job hunting though, or asking for more hours. I have an older teen who recently got promoted into a supervisor post in their Saturday job, so the posts are out there, and it's small steps like that people could make. It doesn't have to be going from frontline to senior management as your only option. If your current company doesn't have a space, someone else will, especially in care and customer service work.

There is nowhere to go where I work, I'm as high up as I'll ever get. And I need other things they offer - wfh, genuinely flexible hours that work for me as well as the org I work for, able to book time off last minute. And actually a higher wage than comparable jobs in the sector, though not high compared to average wage in the UK.

I tried doing an OU course, but it didn't work out - there just aren't enough hours in the day!

Absolutely agree. When I first became a single parent I approached numerous estate agents to look at rentals and was told they were deliberately priced so high so as not to be affordable for people on benefits. It's their way of getting round not being legally allowed to discriminate against benefit claimants, and Because there is a shortage of housing landlords can name their price. We need a rental price cap to be brought in.

No. If you want a free market then have it but subsidising wages with benefits stop people from being paid what they would accept otherwise. It has over inflated the rental housing market and allows unprofitable sectors and busineses to continue.

Those suggesting that working full time shouldn't necessarily afford you a basic life. What's the point in doing them then? We currently have an underclass of people who keep the country running with their work: school staff, hospital staff, carers, cleaners etc who are expected to contribute to society but effectively can't participate in it. They can't own property, they can't have families, they can't go out and spend money because they're left counting pennies and getting into tremendous debt just staying alive. It's an absolute mess.

I believe every job is worthy of a livable wage. It used to be that way.

Retraining or not of course depends on many factors.

I say just keep your eyes open for any opportunities around. Some of the lower paying jobs, including the management, have high turnover so if something becomes available, put your hat in. Why not? May or may not get it but you made the effort. If you get it, there's a little boost in wage.

There are so many free online courses for things these days, it gives a chance to try something out for no cost. Try out some things. You never know. Might come across something that is really interesting that you might want to pursue more.

We keep reproducing so there will always be more people come along for the lower paying jobs.

That's how I see it anyway. Just keep your eyes open and give things a try here and there.

Yep. I'm perfectly capable of doing all the things I should to get a 'better' job but I also have a profoundly disabled child who needs me there as much as I can be. And no money for higher education because, see above.

That’s just how society is How defeatist. Conditions for care workers and the people they support have deteriorated since domiciliary social care was taken from the local authorities and put out to private tender. It introduced a middle person who needed to make a profit. It doesn’t fit a business model. I saw this for myself as my mother had caters going in at the time of the change. We can change society in some ways via political decisions.This is just one example.

But communism doesn't work. So for now, it is how society works.

As for care, please see my previous comments. It needs a massive overhaul and we need to encourage school leavers into seeing it as a valid career path/job opportunity.

You do realise that we don't just have 2 options right? This version of capitalism is no longer working but we can change things.

How do you propose that change happening? What is the alternative between where we are now and where we should be?

We currently have an underclass of people who keep the country running with their work: school staff, hospital staff, carers, cleaners etc who are expected to contribute to society but effectively can't participate in it. They can't own property, they can't have families, they can't go out and spend money because they're left counting pennies and getting into tremendous debt just staying alive.

We are governed by people who see no problem with this, which means it is unlikely to change any time soon.

I work in a school and I believe we are fast approaching a crisis in the care and provision for children with SEND. Due to a massive shortage of special school places, we are now expected to accommodate children who a few years ago would never have been placed in a mainstream setting. We have more and more kids with EHCP's who need a 1:1 TA than ever before. This shouldn't be a problem because the EHCP means we have the funding to pay for the TA's salary, but we cannot recruit and retain TA's anymore. There was a time when competition was fierce for these jobs because the hours are convenient for a lot of people, we could have our pick of skilled, qualified people to support our most vulnerable students. Now we've got vacancies we can't fill, so kids who are entitled to a 1:1 don't have one. We are also losing existing TA's at an alarming rate as they simply can't afford to do the job anymore because all their bills have sky-rocketed whilst their wages have stagnated, so they're going to work in retail or admin or in call centres. They don't want to, but they have no choice. We can't afford to pay them more, we can barely afford our electricity bills, so all we can do is give them some of the food bank vouchers we have for struggling parents and hope they stay. Alternative Provision settings locally are similarly impacted. There is a greater demand than ever for their services but they cannot recruit or retain decent staff.

but communism doesn’t work. I wasn’t suggesting communism, rather a mixed economy where essential services are publicly controlled. There aren’t two alternatives between unbridled capitalism where everything is for profit and a communist state. Remember the “third way”. There are lots of options and the present one isn’t working very well for a high percentage of the population.