(electric cars) aibu to think that this won't work?

[greenacrylicpaint]

currently stuck at a motorways service station.
there is a long queue for the chargers of which a few are not working.

imagine summer holidays. how is that going to work? train long distance and then cars/bikes locally?

This is why I’m wary of driving from the NW to London in our electric car. Its range of around 100 miles means a stop or two is inevitable.

Driving around the NW - not a problem. Most of my journeys I can get there and back in one go.

A question for those that queue for chargers at motorways……..
Most services only allow a 2 hour visit, after which parking charges come in, enforced by ANPR.

When waiting for a charger do you suck it up and pay for charging, take a chance or speak to someone inside?

Thanks

And for anyone on the M6 near Preston Charnock Richard services just a couple of (non-Tesla) chargers on each side. Drive a few more miles to the Standish turn off. Just by the roundabout an 8 bay charging station at a petrol station and Costa.

How are we going to provide all the extra electricity needed?

The technology is still evolving at a very high rate. The range only keeps getting better and better.

We have an electric. Our only car.
in 2 years we’ve only charged publicly about 10 times, always been fine, we just charge at home.
Tbf we have our own driveway and don’t do much long distance which makes the difference

FWIW there are a LOT more chargers than there were 2 years ago. They literally are springing up everywhere. But the amount of EVs on the road is currently rising faster. It is an issue, but improving

We don’t have high mileage but we are intending to almost fully charge ours on our rooftop solar (which will be stored in a battery if our car is “out” that day).

The technology is still evolving at a very high rate. The range only keeps getting better and better.

One concern I have is that the makers obviously focus all their R&D and marketing on when the cars are new, but that doesn't really help people at my end of the market who buy cars when they're 8-10 years old.

Petrol and diesel cars don't lose that much in efficiency when they're older - and even if they do, it might be 600 miles to a tank becoming, say, 450 miles, which is still a massive range. What's the point for those of us with a much more modest budget if a car can do 200 miles on a charge if it ends up at half that by the time the car reaches us? And even for people who can afford new, if they keep the car for a reasonable amount of time, they will find the same thing before long; and if they sell it on soonish, I'd expect depreciation to be harsh, with that in mind.

I think we'll have to have some kind of system whereby the cars themselves and the batteries are considered separately, with the latter maybe rented and/or expected to be changed much more regularly than the rest of the vehicle. Otherwise, it's not very eco-friendly if perfectly good cars end up being scrapped far before they're worn out, just because of that one limiting part.

How are we going to provide all the extra electricity needed?

New diesel power stations?!

Electricity is the one fuel that is easiest to produce by Green methods like solar or wind. I'd far rather invest in my own solar panels than burn fossil fuels and rely on corrupt (well more corrupt) foreign governments.

I think we'll have to have some kind of system whereby the cars themselves and the batteries are considered separately

that idea was suggested at eu level wrt to standardisation of batteries but was lobbied against by car manufacturers. they all want to do their own thing.

a battery swap currently is a very skillful job that takes longer than taking out an ordinary car battery.
plus electric car batteries are huge. specialist lifting equipment would be needed.

I think we'll have to have some kind of system whereby the cars themselves and the batteries are considered separately, with the latter maybe rented and/or expected to be changed much more regularly than the rest of the vehicle

Definitely. Here's what looks like a brilliant approach:

news.microsoft.com/en-in/features/from-tuk-tuks-to-trucks-a-smart-new-way-to-power-electric-vehicles/

It'd take a lot more work to get this upscaled for cars and non urban environments, I'm sure (inc. standardised designs with physically accessible batteries) but this seems like part of the solution especially for cities. Centralised battery facilities would be better able to function as part of the energy storage solution for renewables.

I'm intrigued as to why the the government has thrown it's weight behind the electric route either than exploring hydrogen. Can't help feeling it is the "Elon Musk" affect rather than in depth research and studies into both. We're have a caravan for our hols and the thought of trying to find a charger point whilst towing every few hours feels me with dread. Will most likely can the van and hop onto planes for our holidays.

I think we should be focusing on the cross country rail and bus networks, which are an expensive disaster or else non-existent in this country, instead of electric vehicles, with massive challenge in terms of rare earth metals, disposing of batteries etc. I am not convinced at all that this is a ‘green’ solution.

On scale it is just another market driven consumer solution, forcing us to keep buying new things and throw away things that were actually doing their job ok, using trendy ‘disruptive technology’ to keep the wheels of capitalism turning, with the added bonus of enabling some of us to feel smug about our choices.

We have a second hand EV as our only vehicle and it hasn't lost range so far. Early indications are that battery life is better than expected. We love ours and would never go back to ICE, even though it is far inferior in range to current new EVs. We have solar panels and mostly charge at home which makes for ridiculously cheap motoring. (Too cheap but there you go).

The public charging network is currently woeful. We do it when needed because we are quite committed but it IS a sweat when chargers are often broken, occupied minutes before you get there, mysteriously slow, fail to talk to your car for no obvious reason etc etc. Many motorway machines are owned by BP and other oil firms, so I suspect this appalling infrastructure fail is pretty deliberate. Zapmap is a big help but for most machines it requires another user to find it broken and report the issue before you know about it. You can always be pipped to the post in a service station as you pull it. It is quite shite and pretending that issue doesn't exist do no favours to anyone.

We must accept that transport needs to change. Public transport should be better and more widely used. It is very silly that people drive all the way to Cornwall, the Lakes, Scotland etc with their car because they need it when they get there. Especially if what they do with it is cram into the same carparks as everyone else at major attractions (ironically many of them places to walk). A bus or train would be far far better for everyone than an overcrowded road and a fucking carpark.

Especially if that use case means people buy a massive diesel car that can hold tonnes of luggage and travel hundreds of miles without stopping, but 300+ days of the year it only gets taken to Tesco and the school run. Our lives are so thoroughly built around the motor car that it is hard for anyone to break away (impossible for some, many can do our bit, most can't give up cars without substantial global change.)

For what it’s worth, I’ve just returned from staying in a village outside Antwerp, with fantastic cycle network, parents routinely cycling their children around in adapted bicycles with front carriages, children cycling, fantastic cheap regular trains into town, lots of pedestrianisation, clean urban environment etc.

The UK is still stuck with it’s individualistic model of everyone in their own car, driving around in their own little world, and the EV revolution is just more of the same.

I think we should be focusing on the cross country rail and bus networks, which are an expensive disaster or else non-existent in this country, instead of electric vehicles, with massive challenge in terms of rare earth metals, disposing of batteries etc. I am not convinced at all that this is a ‘green’ solution.

absolutely this.
there will always be a need for cars/personal transport for specific reasons, but infrastructure should focus on bikeability, busses and trains.

Until they sort out the charging infrastructure it's never going to work. What about the following...
Terraced houses straight on the road
Houses tucked into a corner with no drive and no space
People who live in flats
Houses with more than one car but only one space
The lack of charging points in public car parks
Let's say you've planned a route with service station charging and the motorway is closed for an accident etc and there's a diversion

Until they sort that out I won't be buying one

There is a real infrastructure problem. I am working on a project at the moment, where the planning condition from the council is that we provide 25% EV enabled spaces with ducting underground to cover 100% of spaces. But the statutory electricity supplier has told us that they cannot supply enough electricity for us to put them into service for a MINIMUM of 5 years from now. And probably longer.

We are thinking of doing this, we need the diesel to tow the caravan and long journeys but thinking of swapping the fiesta for small EV for local days out and shopping, we have a drive so would only ever charge at home

One concern I have is that the makers obviously focus all their R&D and marketing on when the cars are new, but that doesn't really help people at my end of the market who buy cars when they're 8-10 years old.

Most if not all batteries are warranted for 8 years. Mine is 5 years old and I've noticed no degradation at all, simply because the software restricts the maximum charge to less than 100% to preserve longevity. Some Tesla's have already done 200k miles and are still above the warranted performance requirements.

You might be right about the efficiency of the ICE but it's not always the case and a 3 year warranty says it all. Typically it's everything else that causes problems for the car, which is why manufacturers make so much money on aftersales.

The thing with an EV is you can run a diagnostic on the battery before you buy an 8-10 year old car and it will tell you in black and white how it's doing.

It's still impossible to do that for an 8-10 year ICE and it's still a complete lottery whether your new, used car will dump oil on your drive, need a new clutch in 100 miles etc etc.

The last 10+ year old used car I bought had the usual checks done, been fully serviced and the engine management light came on after 300 miles. There was no way of telling that a £1000 bill was round the corner.

I'd take the visibility of a battery any day.

As an EV driver, yes I agree. Tip for long journeys though is to use Zap Map to find off-motorway chargers to avoid the queues. Quite a few are at naice country pubs so you can stop and have a drink or meal, if you hate motorway services.

I have an EV 95% of charging is done at home but I agree the UK charge network is poor. 7kw/50kw chargers are an absolute waste of time they are literally pointless when you are stopping mid journey. 120kw should be the minimum on new public installations.

i popped in to Tesco yesterday and plugged in the car only to find they were no longer free and wanted 28p kw!

I couldn't even think how difficult it would be to charge when towing, it's bad enough just filling up with diesel with a caravan stuck on the back, also towing would probably half the mileage you could do.

I think private car ownership will decrease dramatically over the next few decades. Petrol prices are forever going up, and electric cars require a huge infrastructure shift (plus still require electricity to be generated). Ideally the powers that be should be investing in public transport, cycling infrastructure etc, and preparing for people just to not travel so much (ie working from home, shopping online etc), but they probably won't until they have to.

Batteries will get better and every petrol station will eventually be a charging station and it will be fine

We tow a large caravan. How will charging pulling that work? Journey takes time as it is. Fitting a large caravan in a charging space won't work and cause blockages.

I wish they would abandon electric vehicles. Not practical and still relies on electricity. Thousands of batteries from cars being dumped. Focus on hydrogen power. Unlimited charging and zero emissions. Doesn't use electricity to recharge either.