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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why nobody thinks my DD is autistic?

338 replies

Nobodylistens · 27/10/2022 23:09

DD is 11.
She has always been quiet, intelligent and rather intolerant of peers her age.
At some points it came across rude - she got to about 6 and couldn’t see why kids her age were still running around dressed as fairies so would rather play alone or with one other child similar in nature.
As time has gone on, she has become more and more socially awkward - she hates any situations where she will have to talk to people she doesn’t know and refuses completely to attend holiday clubs for me to work but also won’t be left alone at home for any length of time in fear for someone breaking in ( we’ve never had a break in )
Shes not affectionate and tenses up completely if anyone shows her any affection and is clearly visibly uncomfortable; tears when nan tries to hug or kiss her goodbye ( we’ve had to tell nan to stop in no uncertain terms )
Shes now gone vegetarian which is fine but can’t accept others in the house are still eating meat and is visibly upset at meal times where meat is being served and asks to eat in her room alone so she doesn’t have to see it
She can’t hear people eat - she leaves the room if someone makes a noise whilst eating
She can’t share a room on holiday with her sister or me or dad as she can “ hear “ us breathing and gets frustrated that we can’t sleep with our mouths closed and no noise
Lack of empathy - a toddler fell over in front of us today and older DD ran over to pick her up; DD said she should have looked where she was going
Massive attachment to her dog, almost obsessed to the point she thinks she’s a human; talks to her, cuddles her, speaks about her the entire time we are away from home for any length of time

Lots more examples but feeling especially drained tonight as she has finally gone to bed after being convinced that the flies we saw on the dog walk might now be in her bedroom - she doesn’t want to sleep with me; says that’s weird at her age ( even though 13 year old DD sometimes does ) but sometimes just won’t / can’t sleep so sits up all night as I won’t let her have technology after 8pm so just repeatedly comes in to tell me she’s bored and can’t sleep but doesn’t actually want anything I can offer.

Im sure there’s something going on but nobody agrees.

anyone been here?

OP posts:
Nobodylistens · 30/10/2022 09:50

Oblomov 22 - what do you mean about not telling her she can change?

I have tried to help her “ change “ for want of a better word, cope better, for years but as she’s got older it’s got easier for her to just refuse to do things she’s not comfortable with, parties etc which when younger I would have just taken her along to without thinking.

How could I have “ changed “ her?

OP posts:
Oblomov22 · 30/10/2022 09:58

When she says she can't change. What do you say? What is your response.

I don't know exactly what the correct response is, but something like:

She just needs a bit cuddle and reassurance that she can. You could have told her: you can change , I will help you. I have some good books I've just ordered that you might like, might explain things.
We will work on this together. So that you find it easier. Everything finds certain things tricky live. We all resort to our default. But we can all work on changing that.

Or something similar??

Then you get her the books the other posters have recommended and you work through them. And you gently persuade her that although she doesn't want an assessment, to trust you and hopefully it won't be that traumatic and it might help Her realise a few things and it will actually help her. and if at this stage doesn't want anyone else (school) to know, tell her that it will be completely private at this stage.

Maybe?

Nobodylistens · 30/10/2022 10:00

Thats exactly what I have done minus the cuddle as she can’t cope with physical affection

Im not sure why you thought I hadn’t done all of those things

I can’t promise her the assessment will be completely private at this stage as all the ones I’ve looked up wants a school report too

OP posts:
Tw33dleD33 · 30/10/2022 10:00

She can’t change if she is autistic. That is why it is a disability. You can’t change any disability.She can use coping strategies but it will take years and she will still have melt downs which she shouldn’t feel bad about. She probably doesn’t understand her emotions that well ie disappointment about the suit not fitting, sensory discomfort. She may have been overwhelmed by the pool noise etc too. All that will take a lot of time and support to manage and it will still bubble over.

NT are not coping with a bucket full of neurodiversity challenges and a disability before they have to cope with emotions like disappointment which they don’t understand.

WahineToa · 30/10/2022 10:03

@Oblomov22 you have to be really careful with language like ‘you can change’ with autistic people. I never speak like that to my family. Autism traits and sensory sensitivities can be managed better sometimes, but you run a fine line and risk harmful behavioural modification. So that’s another reason diagnosis and learning about autism properly is so so important.

When we say thinks like, she can learn to do x, y, z better… what you’re implying is that autistic people can be neurotypical. They can’t. If they’re having an issue with communication, it isn’t just an issue for them is it? It’s also whoever they’re communicating with needs to understand them. That’s where OP I think you need help, read about it, read about it, read about it. Now. I feel like you’re getting as overwhelmed and panicky as your daughter and that isn’t helping her. I understand because I’ve been there. But who are you contacting about this? What’s your plan after discussing it on this thread?

Tw33dleD33 · 30/10/2022 10:04

Lorna Wing wasn’t taking new referrals and the waiting list when they do is long.

Nobodylistens · 30/10/2022 10:09

I’ve contacted various assessment places via email - that’s a shame about the Lorna wing

I’m not going to leave this, I need to help her and I will but that doesn’t mean I’m not dreading her upset when she knows her teacher will have to be involved.

She hates to be anything other than “ perfect “ - her year 2 teacher once said she dreaded the day DD got less than 100% in the spelling test, she literally hates getting anything wrong.

OP posts:
Oblomov22 · 30/10/2022 10:14

I'm sorry if I used the wrong words.

Start a thread in a SN section OP.
The woman there are incredibly supportive and incredibly knowledgeable and will help you and guide you through the process.

You could phone the private consultant and ask her what the first meeting will be like and she will explain the questions that she's going to ask your DD and then you can go through it with her so it won't upset her more than it will naturally.

They don't just dive straight into an ADOS assessment. They started asking my DS lots of questions about himself including the sally-Anne test, Which highlighted his severe theory of mind issue and his spiky profile. But I don't even know if they still do that these days.

Other MN'ers will know more about current stuff. and they will help you, prepare you, so that you don't waste your time energy money or upset DD further than she needs to be by preparing her properly before you go.

Mn is fab at this.

Oblomov22 · 30/10/2022 10:15

You are right. Even if it's not ASD, she needs help at this moment in time and OP can facilitate that.

asleeponthetable · 30/10/2022 10:22

Oblomov22 · 30/10/2022 09:46

@asleeponthetable
I agree re possible PDA. I linked the Ross Green book earlier to OP. She hasn't yet mentioned buying any of the suggested books that many different posters recommended though.

Apologies, I didn’t see you link to it.

Hopefully she’ll take it on bird - IMO it should be number one reading handed out at diagnosis for most families especially PDA, ADHD and ASD without LD to help them start to understand where behaviours are coming from.

OP other than just a diagnosis you need to flip how you’re seeing the behaviour and it’s affects on life. She tried to control her anxieties by purchasing a new swimsuit to make her feel good, but it didn’t. In that she’s also spent id guess all of her pocket money so she has nothing to show for that either. Then she couldn’t cope and she was able to tell you she couldn’t go in (many can’t), let her be open about when things are too much. When she can be open and you can manage it, you can encourage trying for a short period. It sucks, it’s not easy… but she didn’t do it to hurt you or her sister.

Nobodylistens · 30/10/2022 11:31

Sorry I should have said I am taking her to the shopping centre today to buy all the books mentioned for her and I to read - along with a new swimsuit.

She wants to spend her pocket money on skin care as she has got some spots recently that are upsetting her so has been upset this morning she won’t be able to buy both so we’ve agreed she can spend her pocket money on lots of skincare and I will buy a costume she is comfortable with and we will give the others to charity so she isn’t confused by the choice the next time we go swimming if she just has one she really likes.

Too many choices become an issue for her too so I’m going to help her limit that.

I understand why she felt overwhelmed yesterday, she didn’t mean to cause upset, of course she didn’t - that’s why I said I know she can’t help the way she acts.

I will start a thread on the SN board and thank you to everyone who has taken the time to reply to this thread

OP posts:
Winter789Mermaid · 30/10/2022 11:46

You can’t ‘change’ her you can change the environment she is in and introduce strategies to help manage the things that send her over the edge. My DD11 is currently sitting underneath a blanket with headphones she’s decompressing after socialising with her friend. If we tried to do anything else with her in the next 2hrs we would get a meltdown so we don’t. She uses music & audio books via noise cancelling headphones to regulate herself.

buttons123456 · 30/10/2022 19:35

@Nobodylistens did you get any books ? I hope it helps her to understand herself .

Nobodylistens · 30/10/2022 20:27

We got every single book
She got a little bit upset seeing the titles of some but calmed down when she saw a fact book about dogs that was added to the selection

We spoke a lot about how different everyone is which is fine and that this is just to help her and help the family have a better understanding of what she needs to feel more settled etc.

She is very funny without meaning to be - she was shocked at the amount of make up on a lot of similar age girls when we were in the shopping centre and said to me very matter of factly “ I understand why you wear make up; in a bid to look slightly younger but why would a young girl want to look old when she’s lucky to be young - it makes no sense “

She actually told me she had a really nice day today and asked for her birthday that we go away to a hotel just us for the night - she never ever says things to show she’s enjoying herself and I’ve found myself over the years never really knowing what she’s enjoying or not as her expression can be quite serious so this was a massive thing for her to say without being asked.

I told her I was very lucky to have her and she looked a little tearful and said she guessed she was very lucky too 😆

OP posts:
WahineToa · 30/10/2022 21:31

That’s such a great update! I’m so glad you had such a nice day.

Phineyj · 30/10/2022 21:46

Aw, she sounds like my niece (who loves books). Hopefully this can turn into a nice project, getting ideas from the books and trying them out.

wacademia · 30/10/2022 23:24

Oblomov22 She can change. We all can.

Taking that at strict face value: yes she can change. What I want to make clear, because people tend to read between the lines and infer things that you did not actually say (as Tw33dled33 seemed to), is that you cannot make an autistic person into a neurotypical person.

What the OP's DD can do is learn how to manage her sensitivities better. She can learn to recognise the early signs of sensory overload and ask to go somewhere quieter before reaching meltdown. She can learn how to pace herself. She can become more accepting of her own fallibility and less ashamed so that she is less worried about having a meltdown at school. The fear of a meltdown at school will mean that she spends her whole school day stressed and with her feelings in strict lockdown, this will be very unpleasant for her. If she fears it less, she will be more comfortable and less likely to have a meltdown.

It is hard for me as an intelligent (so I am told) adult graduate to learn these skills. A child will need help.

asleeponthetable She tried to control her anxieties by purchasing a new swimsuit to make her feel good, but it didn’t. In that she’s also spent id guess all of her pocket money so she has nothing to show for that either. Then she couldn’t cope and she was able to tell you she couldn’t go in (many can’t)

A cascade of things going wrong like that will have me meltdown faster than a snowflake in hell. It reminds me of a concept from CBT called "snowballing" (not the sex act, for those of you who immediately thought of Clerks) where you get upset about something, then you get angry with yourself for getting upset so you are now more upset, then you get angrier with yourself because you are more upset.. A bit like a snowball rolling down a slope picking up more snow as it goes and getting ever-larger. In the same way, something goes wrong, so you try to fix it, so that goes wrong, so you try to fix that, and the frustration and fear mount up with each step. One of the management skills I've learned is to recognise the cascade of failures and stop trying to fix things but instead take some time out.

OP She wants to spend her pocket money on skin care as she has got some spots recently that are upsetting her

Tea tree oil, applied neat to the spots, before bed.

so she isn’t confused by the choice the next time we go swimming

Well-recognised. Decision fatigue (where your decision-making gets worse as you make more decisions) and decision paralysis (where your mind locks up and you cannot make a choice at all) disproportionately affect autistic people, as well as those with anxiety and OCD. If she only has one costume, there's no decision to make. Even some neurotypical people remove choices to reduce the mental burden of decision-making.

we go away to a hotel just us

Copes well with one person or a very small group, but not so much with a larger group, yup.

She hates to be anything other than “ perfect “ - her year 2 teacher once said she dreaded the day DD got less than 100% in the spelling test, she literally hates getting anything wrong.

Yup. This thread is like reading about my own childhood.

I understand why you wear make up; in a bid to look slightly younger

And she didn't see how implying that you look old might be seen as rude? Yup, that's exactly the kind of thing I came out with until someone told me that saying some things might be true but hurts people so don't say them. (Honestly, the rules I've been taught about what not to say is like having Skippy's List inside my head.) I laughed so loudly when I read that bit that I startled my cat.

I'm glad that you are trying to obtain an assessment for your daughter. Based on what you have said, I'd put money on her being autistic.

wacademia · 30/10/2022 23:37

Phineyj · 30/10/2022 21:46

Aw, she sounds like my niece (who loves books). Hopefully this can turn into a nice project, getting ideas from the books and trying them out.

You don't need to wait for a diagnosis to do this. If a measure works for her, then use it whether she is diagnosed or not.

Nobodylistens · 31/10/2022 00:02

Gosh not at all, 40 is incredibly old to her.
She wouldn’t think twice about saying that - she’s JUST about learnt not to say things to classmates such as why would you like unicorns when they aren’t real ( age 5 ) or telling all the other children including her older sister that Santa wasn’t real ( age 6 ) but generally speaking she can’t mask the truth, she won’t say a dress I have on is nice, even if I ask her opinion at best I would get “ I don’t like it, but I guess it’s your style “
Her older sister is forever saying sometimes just lie! but she doesn’t give compliments AT ALL - apart from to the dog who is told regularly, all day, how perfect she is and is held, brushed and completely adored.

I haven’t always understood how she can be so tactile and affectionate to animals but struggles so much with people but I guess it’s because it’s on her terms.
At certain times she can go to her room without the dog and just be on her own to read etc and when she wants the company she seeks the dog out - maybe it’s partly control?

I agree that it’s likely to come back as she’s autistic so I’m going to try and prepare her for that and regardless of the outcome we will turn this into a project for us to learn more about her.

Is it usual for it to become more obvious with age like this?
She was never massively sociable or anything like that; but thinking back to her at 5, she would go to parties and enjoy them etc and every year she’s found social events much harder or even to socialise in a hello / goodbye way unless shes comfortable so even with grandparents now she can appear fairly awkward.
Im kicking myself for not picking up on everything earlier but the more I think about it, it’s only been as obvious as it is in the past 1/2 years.

OP posts:
wacademia · 31/10/2022 02:15

I'm going to address your last post a chunk at a time, because I'm writing tomes here.

she can’t mask the truth

Her older sister is forever saying sometimes just lie!"

As I type, there is a voice in the back of my head screaming "what right-thinking person wants their child to learn to lie?"
Part of me is genuinely horrified that you want her, or anyone, to do that.
The other part of me recognises that you don't understand why I feel like that, so here goes my view on why autistics struggle with this.

Autistic people tend to interpret rules strictly, will initially prioritise the first rules we learn over later rules, and will then spend a lot of time thinking carefully about what "right" and "wrong" mean in order to resolve apparent conflicts between rules. We prioritise ethically correct behaviour, that is acting according to the rules, more highly than avoiding hurting people's feelings, because:

  • what hurts others feelings is hard to understand, I can't read another person's mind, and that person might be lying when they say "you've hurt me" or "no, it's fine",
  • no matter what you do, there's a risk of upsetting someone somewhere,
  • we understand that sometimes hurting feelings is the right thing to do to avoid greater harm, and
  • doing wrong is a form of unkindness to everyone because society only works properly when we all obey the same rules as to basic conduct (hence why we have laws and prisons and courts).
Whether I hurt someone's feelings is an impossible minefield, but what I can do is make sure that I have done my best to do the ethical thing.

All humans are taught from an early age that lying is wrong and we are often punished for lying to our parents and teachers. I strongly suspect that adults teach their children not to lie because it is much easier to manage your children when the child will admit to breaking the china instead of blaming their sibling/the dog/etc. We are told maxims like "the truth will out" to make us fear being found out as a liar and shown the Nolan Principles and Ten Commandments as examples of authoritative rule-setters prioritising honesty. With autistics being perfectionists (e.g. not getting 100% on spelling test makes teacher fear a meltdown) and have a strong sense of shame (e.g. the school must not find out about the meltdowns that happen at home), we really fear being caught in a lie and we really take seriously the rule that lying is wrong. (This is why there is part of me screaming "but why would you want your child to lie, what is wrong with you?") We are then later told "actually, we lied to you about that rule, lying isn't always wrong and in fact sometimes you should lie but the rules of when it isn't or is OK to lie are really complicated and we won't help you figure them out, you are on your own with this". OK, no one actually says that directly in those exact words, but the sister saying "sometimes just lie" is an example of what the later change of message looks like in practice.

As a consequence of all the above, lying, even "white lying", is a huge challenge for many autistics. It's almost impossible for me to tell a direct lie. What I've learnt to do is to skilfully leave details out to spare people's feelings and devised criteria (based on the Rotary four-way test and similar principles of correct speech but also considering how leaving things out to spare feelings in the short-term can backfire in the long-term and cause greater harm) to decide when to omit details.

To give a simple example, if you and I were dress shopping together and you asked my opinion when trying on, I would be completely honest, no omissions, because it would be less kind to let you buy an unflattering dress than to tell you that it looks like a bucket of sick was tipped over you. If you had already bought it and were wearing it on a night out and asked me for what I thought, I would try to find something nice about it, anything, even just "I like the buttons" or "the neckline flatters your bust" or something that I could say truthfully without saying falsely that I like the whole dress or else say I don't like it and ruin your evening. If you showed me the dress at home before going out, I would tell that it was unflattering so that you could change it for something nicer before you went out, again, "friends don't let friends go out looking like a sack of King Edwards" because to do so is unkind.

A more complex and much higher-stakes example, was going to see my grandfather when he was dying. I knew he would ask after his beloved cat that we had taken in and promised that we would care for but not been able to keep because it had attacked one of our other cats and broken her tail. I omitted the detail that we had rehomed it and instead very selectively relayed detailed true information from the new owners about how well the cat had settled in (without saying where the cat had settled in) and how much it came for strokes and cuddles (not saying who it went to for strokes and cuddles) and hoped and hoped and hoped that he wouldn't ask outright whether Tiger was still with us. I had to rehearse in advance the selective truth-telling to make sure I wouldn't slip up, because he had already had his heart broken once when he lost his cat at the start of his end-or-life care and I did not want to break his heart a second time. Even with the stakes so high, I could not bring myself to say "Tiger's doing really well with us", it's like my tongue freezes in my mouth and the words will not come out. Thankfully, he didn't ask where Tiger was. I am confident that, by only telling Grandpa what was true but also would not hurt him, I behaved ethically and kindly.

I strongly suspect that posters will think about writing replies quoting that sentence and saying things like "omg he was a dying man you could get off your fking moral high ground just once and lie to spare his feelings", to which I say that it is not a choice and repeat "it's like my tongue freezes in my mouth and the [untrue] words will not come out". This is one of the reasons why autism is a disability, it is a "mental impairment" causing a "substantial and long-term adverse effect" to the autistic person's "ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities" like telling "white lies" in circumstances that other people wouldn't think twice about.

wacademia · 31/10/2022 03:33

if I ask her opinion at best I would get "I don’t like it, but I guess it’s your style"

She's already trying to be kind by acknowledging that taste is subjective whilst giving the honest opinion that she thinks that you asked her for. Please note the bolded wording.

I would act according to my dress example in my last post, where I would moderate the amount of truth I give in order to get the kindest outcome. I would do that because I have about thirty years more experience of living with humans than your daughter and I have learned in that time that people often do not ask for what they actually want to hear and there are certain questions that are almost always not sincere solicitations of my opinion. People will ask insincere questions in the hope of getting the answer that they want, for various reasons. Your daughter has yet to learn this, hence why I said that she is giving the honest opinion that she thinks you asked for.

Examples of insincere solicitations of opinion include fishing for compliments and what I call "virtue-signalling questions". (Psychologists probably have a technical term for the latter, but I don't know what it is and can't be bothered looking for it.)

In most contexts, asking "what do you think of my dress?" is a clear example of fishing for compliments. It's behaviour If you already own the dress, you must have liked it enough to buy it, so why are you asking me whether I like it? You don't want my actual opinion, you really only want to hear "it's lovely, really suits you". This is behaviour that I do not understand, because most people will lie sooner than tell you that they don't like it. What's the point of asking a question when you know that some of the answers are so socially unacceptable that most people will lie sooner than utter them? You're not trying to gather opinions, you are trying to get an ego boost. IMO, the compliment you have to ask for, just like the apology that you have to ask for, is worthless because it probably won't be sincere.

An example of the virtue-signalling question is when people ask "how are you?" With few exceptions, e.g. my boss during my weekly one-to-one, they don't actually want you to tell them about the anxiety attack you had yesterday or the creep who felt your bum on the train into work this morning, they want to hear "I'm grand, and yourself?" or at worst "been better, but I'm still here". If you start telling them a different, truthful answer they act startled and quickly try to find ways to end the conversation and depart. (Source: personal experience.) I find this form of insincere question utterly contemptuous. Why pretend that you are interested in someone's wellbeing if you are not? The questioner is being dishonest by pretending to care.

I heave learned that both the unvarnished truth about someone's dress / my wellbeing / etc and attempting to explain why I find such questioning at best pointless and at worst insulting, as outlined in the two preceding paragraphs, tend to result in hostile responses from the questioner. I have learned to give the shortest honest response possible, omitting any details that are likely to provoke a negative response, and try to change the subject immediately after.

wacademia · 31/10/2022 04:16

but she doesn’t give compliments AT ALL

I find receiving compliments (which I don't solicit, I think I've made it clear already why I don't) awkward. I feel embarrassed and awkward being praised, even when it is well-deserved. Part of it is that they often feel irrational, I mean why are you praising me for doing what I am meant to do? And part of it is memories of fearing the "swot" label and playground beatings that went with being a high achiever at school. If you DD feels the same way, then consider that she would not want to inflict on others that which she dislikes herself. It's called "empathy", albeit imperfect empathy because she doesn't yet understand the ways in which other people think differently from her. As an adult, I've learned that other people do like compliments and I will congratulate someone on a task well completed. I still don't give unsolicited (and hence meaningful) compliments on appearance because I think people's value is in what they do, not how they look.

apart from to the dog who is told regularly, all day, how perfect she is and is held, brushed and completely adored.

She knows that the dog can't understand her and can't feel awkward. She is talking for her own benefit, not the dogs.

I haven’t always understood how she can be so tactile and affectionate to animals

Animals cannot speak. In signalling theory, human speech is the cheapest signalling there is, minimal effort. Hence, lying is cheap for neurotypical humans. Lying also involves the ability to consciously suppress body language and other cues as to deception. Animals are less able to do this. Hence, it is unusual for animals to lie. She can trust the dog to be honest with her.

Animals can get offended, you should see my cat when I dare to put him off my lap, but they can't get offended by your words. Your DD struggles with words. She can be honest with the dog without the dog getting upset. Your DD lives in a world where other people often misunderstand her intent. The dog cannot misunderstand her.

For autistic people, sensory stimulation can cause or calm distress. Stroking fur is very effective at calming.

struggles so much with people but I guess it’s because [being with the dog is] on her terms.

That leapt out at me and rang alarm bells. If your DD doesn't feel that she can say no to people, then you need to teach her that she has a right to have boundaries. That she has the right to (politely and calmly, but firmly) end a conversation if she wants. That she does not have to hug etc. (People teach their kids that they must hug aunty Nora and then wonder why the kid doesn't report being molested, well duh, you literally taught your kid that they aren't allowed to say no to being touched.) Boundary setting is a huge issue for autistic women and girls because female social conditioning to (try to) be people-pleasers does not combine with autism to make an assertive confident girl, and sadly yes, autistic women and girls make easier targets for molesters than their NT counterparts because of this.

At certain times she can go to her room without the dog and just be on her own to read etc and when she wants the company she seeks the dog out - maybe it’s partly control?

Being able to control her environment is part of moderating sensory stimuli, so it makes sense that she will want to choose when she cuddles the dog.

wacademia · 31/10/2022 04:45

Is it usual for it to become more obvious with age like this?

Yes, because social situations become more complex and harder to navigate with higher standards of behaviour expected, meaning more social mores to be unaware of and more opportunity to fall foul of (from the autistic perspective) the irrational rules that everyone else lives by. Faux pas that would have gone unnoticed or even expected when aged five, such as a child loudly announcing in company that she needs to wee, or giving an unvarnished and unflattering opinion of her friend's choice of birthday party movie, become unacceptable as the child ages.

It's not by any means hopeless for your daughter. I went undiagnosed as a child because it was still widely believed that autism didn't affect girls, so it never occurred to my parents that I could have it. Yet I still managed, admittedly with some difficulty, to end up working at a university (in case the user name wasn't a clue Grin), mortgage holder on my own home, can drive, have hobbies, etc. Your daughter has a huge advantage that I did not have: a mother who recognises her difficulties and is prepared to support her.

Hopefully, my "autie's eye" perspective has been helpful for you both.

wacademia · 31/10/2022 04:58

Editing error:
fishing for compliments. It's behaviour If you already own the dress,

I'm not going to fix all the errors because it's hopefully clear in most cases what I meant to type, but that cruft was enough to alter the meaning.

Oblomov22 · 31/10/2022 05:15

I think her dd calling it lying is maybe unhelpful. 'Why don't you just lie'. Ask dd not to say it anymore, in order to help other dd. It's not lying as such. It's called the subtleties. Its the nuances of life. It's knowing when to not be blunt.

That's where learning the subtleties of social skills comes into play.
Instead of saying to a friend re-the dress : "no that dress is awful. you look hideous, it doesn't suit. you look fat and un-attractive and the shape doesn't suit you at all".

You say. No. It's not as flattering as the other blue one, you look fab in that".

It's not lying as such. It's nuances. To not hurt someone. To phrase things better. Because saying the former would hurt a NT persons feelings more. You yourself Probably wouldn't give a care because you're hardened and emotionally you may be less sensitive as an ASD person but for a normal person / Neurotypical person those comments would hurt.

Whereas the reformed comment let the person know exactly what you're thinking but in a more subtle restraint friendly way.

And this is what we're trying to teach our ASD children. That the world isn't ready for as much bluntness as ASD children want to give! the world expects social Subtlety in friendship and that's why we try to encourage our ASD children to understand the complexities of friendship so they don't go around upsetting people.

As they learn the new the rules of friendship, so don't they don't feel quite so alienated.

This is only one tact of trying to help ASD children. may not be for everyone. may not suit everyone but it's one way of trying to help some ASD children.