When people say LTB...

[Cheeeeislifenow]

I feel like sometimes on mumsnet people say this as if it's the easiest thing in the world forget the emotional side of it including co dependendence, abusive behaviour or "love".
The practicalities are the hard bit, especially when you have children, even more if you have children with additional needs even more if you have no family of your own to support you, if I were to "LTB" I would be homeless, not just me but my kids too, benefits take ages to come through and the rental market is a non existent, crippling expensive shambles.
AIBU to think there are lots of couple living together who cannot separate due to financial and practical reasons....
Or am I kidding myself and other people do it

Its why people on here also say don't bloody put yourself in a position where you are completely financially dependent on someone else!!!

and how much do you think you need to earn to be able to pay for a mortgage, childcare, run a car, pay for all the essentials?

£40,000? £50? £60?

And the average salary?

Wintermoonandstars

In the UK it really is no harder for a young woman to get a well paid job, than a young man.our education system is open to all, young women in fact leave education generally better qualified than men.

So why do we fucking assume most women will end up financially reliant on their partner

I actually think there is a group of people on here that want to split people up.
Only explanation I can come up with.

We don’t

but

if men had the same propensity for being lone parents then many of them would also be living in poverty.

An average salary is fine. But high housing costs (especially in some areas) and the crippling cost of childcare drives people even on okay ish salaries into difficulties.

and fucking this and fucking that aside, men are paid more than women (on a national level)

and the amazing education system doesn’t suit everybody, funnily enough. some people will never earn well.

So - where does that leave you?

It isn’t purely financial and it shouldn’t be. But marriages and long term relationships do undergo challenges and ebb and wane in terms of sexual attraction. If the knee jerk response to that is ooh - the ick - break up the family - then that can have repercussions and one of the major repercussions is poverty.

I think your post is tone-deaf.

I have never seen a thread where a poster talking about 'the ick' in a marriage (or long-term relationship) with children has been told to LTB

Dating or short-term relationships, yes.

The reason I mentioned physical vs other abuse - physical abuse can be (possibly) seen & named. Other forms of abuse, less so. A woman might wonder: is it really emotional abuse, or just a difference of opinion?

On MN, posters are very good at spotting the AIBU really being about a dysfunctional or more problematic relationship, and not merely the issue being asked.

like ‘why the fuck did you have the 1 child let alone 3 more kids with such a toxic prick

Well it comes across as ignorant, actually.

I did exactly this. I've often asked myself why.

The reasons are myriad. I had no clue it was abusive, I deeply hoped for change, family & children were important to me.

I'm not stupid, but the whole point of abuse is somewhere there's vulnerability that the abuser takes advantage of

Only people with no clue think, let alone ask, such stupid questions.

What annoys me more is when people say leave and find someone who will treat you better then I made a thread about dating again as a single mum and was basically told that no one would be interested in me now 🤦🏻🤣 thought you should leave and find someone who will treat you better?!

But marriages and long term relationships do undergo challenges and ebb and wane in terms of sexual attraction. If the knee jerk response to that is ooh - the ick - break up the family - then that can have repercussions and one of the major repercussions is poverty.

Of course.

And on many many threads I see this mentioned - talk about it, go to counselling.

If it's genuinely just a tough spot, this will be helpful, if both people are committed to change.

If it's a more deep-seated issue, that is not fixable, then ending the marriage / relationship with respect & awareness is the right decision.

It may come with some compromises. It may not be immediately possible.

But there are always choices and they don't have to lead to poverty.

Seriously, @EarringsandLipstick , there is one on this thread.

There are honestly hundreds of posts proclaiming that a woman has ‘the ick’, even in a marriage or long term relationship, even when age of tiredness is more likely to be the source of lack of sexual desire.

It is hardly tone deaf to say this

You'll do it if you're desperate enough. You'll find a way.

I think leaving with a view to finding someone better is a very problematic view, and while it might be the aspiration ultimately, I really doubt anyone leaves with that primary aim.

I remember in the early days of my separation wishing in a daydream kind of way that I would meet someone.

9 years on I've had no relationships, no social life really. I still hold hope that there's a possibility of a romantic relationship.

It was still important, for survival, for me to leave.

I think you're being a bit blind @Cheeeeislifenow
Nobody leaves immediately after reading ''ltb''.
But it validates their feelings. which may lead to them leaving.

I left the bastard in 2007 with two toddlers and a rucksack. He attacked me as I walked out the door and I was broke for about 8 years, so, I know it isn't easy but it was easier than staying.

I disagree.

The poster who said that, qualified it - if you have 'the ick' to the extent that there's no way back and you can't bear to have sex

That's much deeper than 'the ick'. That's a relationship which has lost some of the integral components of marriage, and if individuals are unable to live that way, leaving is the right thing to do.

That's not a blithe LTB cos you've the ick.

Just a quick search on ick in relationships brought up three threads on the first page from married women with small children being told there was no way back.

I’m not going to link as it isn’t really fair on those posters.

Anyway, it isn’t really the point. Ultimately, it is up to the individual whether they leave or stay. But I do think that family breakdown and the ripple effects of this - including but not limited to financial difficulties - is downplayed here.

I didn’t leave with the aim
of finding someone else I’ve been single for 5 years I posted recently asking for dating advice, but I do see on threads people telling posters to find someone who will treat them better.

I’m not going to link as it isn’t really fair on those posters.

🤔

I don't see why it's unfair? I'm willing to bet (just like your selective interpretation of an earlier poster) that there'll be plenty of nuance in the replies.

But I do think that family breakdown and the ripple effects of this - including but not limited to financial difficulties - is downplayed here.

I disagree. There are so many posts that make our clear how hard it is. It's especially so in the UK given the shocking way CMS operates.

Fundamentally, if you are deeply unhappy, and unable to cope in a relationship, that affects every other part of your life, including your parenting.

Separating - ideally with respect & putting children at the core - is a better situation, allowing both parties to move on & be happy.

Of course, sadly that's rarely the case, and it's true that the majority of the time, women are adversely affected more.

I do see on threads people telling posters to find someone who will treat them better

I know what you mean, I've seen it too. But it's more a shorthand for 'there are better people & relationships out there'. It doesn't mean - leave & get a new man, in that summary sense.

It is really speaking to the poster being worth more than this.

Absolutely, usually with the comments 'I couldnt get over that' or 'I would be reconsidering my relationship'

along those lines

But equally people on here do it all the time because a friend or family member isnt perfect or theres been some row or theres a difference of opinion or lifestyle, dump em every time!!

People dont have or want the skills to work through things and forgive imperfections

usually with the comments 'I couldnt get over that' or 'I would be reconsidering my relationship'

Why is that invalid? That's the point of a discussion board, for some people particular actions or trends are deal-breakers. It's not the same for everyone.

People dont have or want the skills to work through things and forgive imperfections

It's possibly through occasionally but far more common are posters excusing awful behaviour. Most of us cling to the idea of a happy and enduring relationship & family. It is very hard to admit when something isn't working, and in fact, the narrative of working through things means women often stay in relationships where they shouldn't, for too long. I did.

I'm another one here who is divorced.
I told XH to leave after whole series of incidents where he'd let me down (including one occasion where he'd shown me no care at all, despite the fact I honestly thought I was dying, due to a reaction to the antibiotics I had been prescribed - after an abortion that he forced me into - I really wanted to keep the baby, a little boy I suspect ☹️), plus the very predictable affairs, including one with the au pair we had at the time.
So, if I advise someone to LTB, I think I can reserve the right to advise someone who is in an abusive relationship, which I certainly was. At that point, I didn't know about gaslighting, but I do now.
It was all years ago now, and while he's happily moved on with the OW, I'm left feeling like I can't trust men, and meanwhile have a huge complex due to the numerous prolapse surgeries I've had, including a hysterectomy.
Some of that isn't relevant to the OP, but I've posted just to put the part of some proponents here who've been on the other side of a happy relationship.
I don't think I'm the only woman who has been left with a deep sadness and also distrust in their relationships with men.

@vipersnest1

I'm so sorry 💐

@EarringsandLipstick, thank you.
I'm kind of past it now, but I haven't been in a relationship for over ten years, and doubt I ever will be.
I don't have the confidence to put myself 'out there' on dating sites, and I've no social life, for lots of reasons.
It is what it is, and while I'm kind of resigned to it, it does make me feel sad.

I never said it did, I said it’s funny how then when you post about dating as a single mum you get told no one wants a single mum 🤷‍♀️

I think the culture round here is nuts. There is a perfectionism about relationships that I really don't fathom, and a glibness about going it alone with kids,and virtually no appreciation of how legitimately upsetting family breakdown is for kids