Been waiting 12hrs for an ambulance

[Riggsisadino]

I know it's all in the news but ambulance wait times are ridiculous and I know it's mainly due to people in a&e not being moved onto a ward and ambulances not being able to move into a&e.
I am currently with someone with a dislocated hip and shoulder and we gave been waiting 12hrs. The pain is getting unbearable and I am struggling to reassure and calm and know what to do. They are saying that they have people in same catogory waiting longer to.
I feel bad for the person I'm with but can't help to think people who aren't sat inside or are on there own. I don't know what the answer is but something neeeds to change

I should bloody hope so! Call a friend with a car or a taxi. Using an ambulance for a broken ankle is an outrageous waste of resources.

I completely agree. Im British but have lived in the US for twenty years and would never choose the NHS over the system we have. The care people receive in the UK is simply unacceptable to people used to a much higher standard. People in the UK complain about US patients dying because they don't have insurance (not typically the case, FWIW) but access to healthcare in the UK is just as restricted, whether it be due to postcode lottery, poor management or the fact that the dozy fuckers across the road have called an ambulance rather than pay for a taxi in the myriad of situations that an ambulance is unnecessary.

Ambulance’s used to make thing a lot more effective for other reasons too.they could be phoning it in,triaging,getting the patient straight into the right place before even arriving.so this made the transition to the hspiptial much quicker and easier.
I no with staffing and availability and all the other problems this can’t happen now but it does explain why sometimes an ambulance was sent even if the patient was to all other seemingly,or possibly mobile.
the trouble is have we all noticed we are talking about what we should be doing in rediculous situations.people shouldn’t have to be short or make these decisions based on their loved ones health. It shouldn’t be assessing a patient to see whether they are at deaths door therefore needing and ambulance. We shouldn’t need to be assessing who’s closer to death and deserves the care first. Or there be waiting lists or no key support at all.
the tories have really fucked us over.

Your post doesn’t make any sense because you are comparing apples to pears. You can go private here to see a doc just like in the USA and get seen very quickly, you self fund or go through insurance. Same as the US, however the nhs is available on top. Yes it’s broken at the present but it’s there, and an extra layer of health care that USA doesn’t have.
The one thing private care doesn’t have in the Uk is accidents and emergency care in private hospitals. And usually insurance doesn’t cover that either. I think this will slowly change though.

German here currently treated for cancer, working as project assistence.
5€ per prescribed medication unless exempt (means tested or under 18)
10 € per day in hospital unless exempt (means tested)
Everything else is payed from the social coffer my % of health insurance pays into.
Some surgeries take a no show fee when you do not cancel in time and the appointment cannot be filled.

I read this and can’t help think about my young DD’s accident and broken arm. It was broken so badly the paramedics couldn’t even splint it without giving her a large injection of narcotics. She absolutely couldn’t be moved onto a stretcher without it being immobilized. They arrived on scene within minutes. I can’t imagine her lying like that for hours.

That wouldn't be a bad thing. I think the standard of training for nurses in this country is very poor compared to other countries.

That wouldn't be a bad thing. I think the standard of training for nurses in this country is very poor compared to other countries

UK nurses are not badly trained at all, 3 years of education plus 1000's of hours of placements mean they get some of the best training in the world.

...that is why UK nurses can walk out of the NHS and with no additional training earn far more in pretty much any English speaking country in the world.... my DD was offered work in Australia whilst still at Uni.

The challenges of using overseas nurses with poor understanding/use of drugs and language are huge & take up a heck of a lot of time to fix.

Rather shameful you think its ok for a developed country to take healthcare workers from developing countries that need them for themselves

The NHS and Social care are in this mess because they have deliberately been underfunded by this vile Tory government so that the system breaks down and fails. Thus enabling them to privatise it. US care here we come!
I am so sorry for all those people suffering and the staff too.

General election now!

I know that there huge gaps in the NHS system I'm well aware that there is a postcode lottery and people have had awful experiences accessing care.
When people speak about the excellent American system for acute care they never mention the people who are suffering because they have no access to management for a chronic condition .
I read yesterday about a young woman being denied acute rehab after a stroke because insurance deemed it unnecessary. I've heard about children who are denied drugs to manage seizure conditions because treatment would be long term and expensive.
I have a long term condition (IBD) which is a miserable and painful, when it flares I'm severely affected by it and unable to manage my life. Under the NHS I have been able to have medication and treatment that has been life changing for me. All that has been free my life would of been very different if I had to pay

Our government have broken and fragmented the NHS into the shambolic service we see today.
They got rid of bursaries for NHS students, charge thousands for training, don't put money where it is needed and pay low wages.
The result is no staff due to problems with recruitment & retention, no resources and additional pressures such as fewer ambulances on the road.
Furthermore the amount of management and unecessary job roles there are within the NHS swallows money that could be used for front line services.
Our NHS could be wonderful, indeed the concept is wonderful it's just it's been creamed off, ripped off and sold off by the Government, who are the same people that like to flag it's failings up.
It's really simple - if you can afford private healthcare go pay for it, leave it for those who can't.
The general public also need to realise that whilst it is 'free' to use if you don't use the right service at the right time then we aren't going to have a NHS for very much longer!

#sadNHSnurse😔

germany and the us (not sure about France) require some payment at point of care. This serves dual function of generating revenue, but also more importantly decreasing demand. Even a nominal sum would encourage the ‘my cold hasn’t cleared in 5 days’ crowd to think twice before seeking care.

Which completely ignores my point that those countries ALSO simply spend more on healthcare (in the case of the US, a LOT more). So what makes you think it's the blocking out of this troublesome "crowd" you assert exists that is responsible for the better outcomes (for the wealthiest only, in the case of the US), and not simply the additional money?

I am American, and I know the US system gets vilified here, but ironically stories from the UK are a big part of why your average American wants nothing to do with socialised healthcare. I am terrified of getting sick here. In the US a health emergency might cost me more personally, but I would get an ambulance in less than 15 mins, emergency treatment within the hour, and cancer screening within a week.

You would have had all those things in the NHS between 2000 - 2010 too. The difference is that everyone else would have had them as well.

I don't know if anyone does really believe it, to be honest. It's so completely counter-factual. I think Tories just say it anyway to avoid admitting the obvious connection between government policy and the state of the health system.

I live in Germany, and if you have state health insurance, which is basically everyone earning under 100k, you do not pay at the point of service. Nothing at all. The only thing I've ever paid for is prescription medicines, which are often discounted but not free, and you can claim this back in a tax return if you can be bothered to keep the receipts. Also some extra tests in pregnancy, these were optional. (Similar happens in the UK). And there is a €10 fee for an ambulance but you get it in the post several weeks later, they don't turn up with a chip and pin machine

If you have private health insurance then you do pay at the point of care but it gets fully reimbursed. Which if you're on a high income is no issue at all I imagine.

In fact in Germany I am more encouraged to visit my doctor with a cold as it is expected in order to get a sick note so that you are paid for your time off work. The sick note is required from the fourth consecutive day of illness, or the second day in some industries (including where I worked) if it is hard to get cover at short notice. The first time the secretary at work explained to me that I should visit my GP I was completely confused and disbelieving (Really?? You want me to go to the GP with a cold??) and she got a bit exasperated with me but it is absolutely expected here. The employer is also strictly forbidden from phoning you and asking you to come back before the date that the doctor states, and if you want/need more time you simply go back to the doctor and if they agree they will extend the sick note.

I really like the way the German health system works but it is more expensive per head than the NHS. And I have absolutely no clue how social care works, but that must be different as well because we don't seem to have these backlogs caused by insufficient elderly care places, even though Germany also has an ageing population.

In theory yes, in reality it won’t work.

I work in assisted living. We’re not allowed to help people up from the floor, we have to call an ambulance. So the same resources are still being used.

@BertieBotts
I would gladly pay more of my income towards healthcare, because carers and nurses definitely need and deserve more money.

There is a % of my income that goes into the 'elderly care coffer' (Pflegeversicherung). My late MIL's pension and the 'Pflegestufe' she was in payed for her place in a decent care home and the care needed.
We has a family only payed for her hairdresser and having her nails done.

In a previous post I explained my current costs of being treated for cancer.
After 6 weeks my employer no longer pays for me and instead health insurance steps in for the next 78 weeks with about 70% of my income (which counts as income towards my pension).

Our local fire station used to have an emergency first responder car which the on-call firefighters manned. They went through all the training and were incredibly busy but then it just stopped after a year or so. Would be a good idea to bring it back with how things are currently.

I know oysters often unavoidable at present but be wary of advising people to take someone themselves, we took our son in (has an atypical
lain response) without knowing he had a leg fracture and had a lecture about the risks- quite correctly had we realised the severity!

The answers involve investing up the chain; make it so that people who choose to be family carers can be without facing the penury of a £69pw income; make paid carers a job that pays enough to survive and covers time travelling (as it used to be years ago when I did that job); give disabled kids edcafional
options that reduce their chances of needing social care… only focussing on the nd results brings constant chaos

@scaredoff you ignore my point that money is only part of the issue, which could be partially addressed by charging nominal fees at point of service.

and as to the assertion that 12 years ago everything worked just fine I call bs. I moved here in 08 from another EU country and soon thereafter faced a health emergency. Treatment was absolutely shambolic - I spent over a week in hospital too sick to be discharged but not sick enough to ever see the cardiologist or have basic tests arranged. Eventually I self discharged without ever seeing the cardiologist and arranged for some intermediary treatment privately while waiting 8 months to finally see that nhs cardiologist. It was terrifying and traumatic- I despair to think what it would be like now if that was the golden age.

Yes yes and yes.

money is an issue undoubtedly
but with
a healthy dollop of people using a&e for very far from close to an emergency

@Alexandra2001 Most of the countries outlined in that post would not be considered as 'developing'. I work in public health and academia, the simple truth is that many of them do. We've only recently moved towards all graduate entry for nurses here, and the entry requirements are frankly low. Of course there are some amazing nurses in this country, but I have sadly encountered many whom I wouldn't trust to nurse a budgie, let alone a relative.

European nurses did not have to return to Europe because of Brexit. It was very easy to apply for pre-settled status. Post brexit it is much easier for employers to apply for a skilled worker visa wherever in the world they are from, including Europe.

EU nurses left the UK and applications completely dried up, it wasn't easy at all, my friend returned to Portugal because it was an awful process, then having her car vandalised was the final straw.

Brexit created an environment where EU workers felt unwelcome here, what was it T. May called them..... "Citizens of Nowhere" Farages..... "We are full" posters.

Leave campaign/DMail constantly saying.... "They are stealing our jobs.

Skilled Labour Visa's have min wages associated with them, plus restrictions on close family coming here, very expensive health insurances & the visa's aren't cheap either.

why would an Italian nurse come to the UK when he/she can go to Sweden of Germany and avoid all of the above, in a less stressful environment?

Maybe you should listen to industry bosses on labour shortages in the UK post Brexit? or better still, realise Bojo played you.

I'm listening @Alexandra2001. I've issued countless certificates of sponsorship since Brexit.

The last 12 months have coincided with labour shortages across the developed world. It won't be long before tens of people are chasing every vacancy again. People will follow the money. They always do.

I don't recall meeting many: French, Dutch, Swiss, German, Italian, Austrian, Belgian, Icelandic, Spanish, Greek, Polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian, etc., nationals working as nurses in the NHS during my 62 years. I wonder how many EEU Nationals were working as nurses in the UK pre Brexit. I know 20% of my institution's 1500 employees were EU nationals pre Brexit. 20% now have pre-settled or settled status. We supported them to get it.