Private surgery going wrong - NHS stepping in

[Garysmum]

I’m aware of lots and lots of people going abroad for surgery cosmetic and non-cosmetic and dentistry etc.

In some cases that surgery is going wrong. Patients return to the UK and then have to turn to the NHS for help.

For example there is a very unwell lady on TikTok who paid for her gastric sleeve in Turkey and she’s now been in hospital in the UK for days with complications. Poor woman is very unwell.

She received a lot of hate filled comments about her use of the NHS having paid for private surgery. It’s impossible to know the details - for example was she just speeding up a process that she would have had on the NHS or perhaps she wouldn’t have qualified for NHS surgery - we don’t know.

She had rightly pointed out if the surgery had been successful, she would have saved the NHS not only the cost of the operation itself but also costs associated conditions she had from being overweight.

i certainly would consider necessary non-cosmetic surgery overseas if I could afford it, it would make an appreciable difference to my quality of life and if I felt there was a backstop if things go wrong. As it stands that backstop does exist as we have the NHS. And I do agree that having private operations whether in the UK or abroad does take the strain off the NHS - e.g. knee replacement (my dad), hip replacement (friends aunt), tonsillectomy (godson) can speed up the process by years in many cases.

But I then wondered if there are any circumstances where the NHS could or should refuse to pay for after care? Some surgery might not be carried out to UK standards overseas or after care might be compromised by having only a week abroad etc?
Does it matter if it is cosmetic?

On my ward I see at least 1-2 ladies per week who have returned from having cosmetic or weight loss surgery abroad. If it is infection from breast implants the implants will be removed and infection treated but not replaced. The amount of people angry about this is unreal..

The alternative is letting people die. A lot of people get into debt to go to places like Turkey for operations. I doubt they’d have funds for more private care if things go wrong. To be fair it’s a small percentage of people who need emergency treatment afterwards - and they’ve eased queues in the NHS by going private in the first place.

I had private surgery a few weeks ago which was performed by the same surgeon who would have done it in the NHS and had it gone wrong I don’t know what I would have done because paying to have private surgery here rather than abroad is very expensive.

with so many people opting to go abroad for surgery I think we’re going to see more emergencies - not because it’s done abroad but purely because any surgery is risky. If you pay your taxes in the UK I suppose you have every right to treatment.

My view on this depends on if it is essential surgery- hip operation, cataracts, dental ( non cosmetic) treatment and stomach stapling or similar- versus purely cosmetic e.g. breast augmentation, dental veneers and that sort of thing.

For the former it's a shame that NHS waiting lists are so long that some people feel compelled to spend their own money, but for the latter I do feel annoyed that public money is being used to rectify unnecessary surgery that has gone wrong.

Not sure what the answer is though.

If your private surgery had gone wrong and you were seriously ill, you would have been transferred into the NHS. If it wasn't as serious I believe your surgeon would have needed to 'fix' it in the private system.

I think that health tourists should pay for a health tourism add on to their travel insurance that covers any medical complications if the surgery abroad is unsuccessful. It would cover the dates of travel plus a window after return of say 6 months or something. This would then reimburse the NHS the costs of corrective surgery, or infection/sepsis, and so on.

The insurance companies could then have lists of approved providers of medical procedures abroad. It would be to their advantage to limit pay outs to research who are quacks and scammer luring in Brits vs those who are genuinely good medical practitioners. And Brits would know they have to pick an approved provider to have this travel insurance add on.

This would give health tourist Brits assurance that they’d found a good surgeon abroad with lower risk of complications…which lets face it can be life changing and/or disabling. No one going to Turkey is seriously thinking that a surgeon they picked is a con artist who is going to leave them scarred for life and almost dying once they get home. But it’s not right to leave this 100% in their hands to research alone- w insurance companies can hire professional auditors to do this bit.

This would also mean passing a law that any health tourism medical complications treated by the NHS must be charged to the person on a cost reimbursement basis other than A&E costs to stabilise, save life/limb.

I think if private surgeons in the UK weren't so expensive then people wouldn't go abroad.

I will have lost 9 stone by Jan/Feb, and have excess skin. By losing weight I have become healthier.

But I have to pay to have the skin removed.

£8000 - Turkey
£15000 / £18000 - UK

Tbh I don’t think it’s that different to the NHS having to treat people when they return injured from skiing holidays or the likes.

when it comes to emergencies and people needing care then and there then there can’t be a hierarchy of “well you did that to yourself so we can’t help” imo.

I dont understand the hate. When I quit working in the hospital they were in the process of buying bigger "shelving" for the undercroft morgue because patients were getting heavier. Weight impacts all aspects of healthcare and the costs add up.

That's a good point about the cost @MrMrsJones , I wonder what makes it so much higher in the UK, labour costs maybe.

I am with Discovereads there should be some kind of compulsory insurance for people who opt for treatment abroad.

@MrMrsJones I understand what you are saying, but cheaper isn't cheaper if you end up in hospital in the UK ...

The idea of insurance is interesting but it's like a lot of these issues in that it's difficult to know where to draw the line.
Should all cyclists, climbers, and horse riders have insurance in case they get injured? As a PP mentioned what about skiers? What about anyone who goes to a far flung country who contracts a disease or infection.

Medical ethics are tricky,

But the same surgeon in London is doing the surgery in Turkey, but for £10,000 less.

Why?

Women can't get breast reduction on the NHS even if it impacts them, but they will pop breast implants in TIMs

I have become healthier by losing weight, so why can't I get help? Even if it was 50/50

I'm a firm believer in the saying "you get what you pay for". There are reasons it's so much cheaper, and at least part of it will be due to lower standards.

The NHs is forever dealing with fallout from people doing dumb stuff. Firstly it seems a bit harsh to pick out surgery when (to pick just one example) good old "Pissed And Fell Over" is hardly rare in A&E.
Secondly, imagine the admin...

My MIL spent all her savings on a private hip replacement in a BUPA hospital. Due to poor aftercare she had complications and they swiftly turfed her out to the NHS.
It's why I would never have private surgery.

Hopefully by raising awareness of the potential complications it will make people twice about travelling abroad for cheap surgery especially when the surgery is purely cosmetic

I have seen a few horror stories in the press recently and that can only be a good thing

It is obviously a big problem for the NHS but it wouldn't be ethical to refuse to treat people with nasty infections etc just because it has resulted from non essential surgery

As others have pointed out there are plenty of illnesses and injuries which you could argue are self inflicted but where would you draw the line

But if you are actively choosing surgery abroad, your risks are higher than someone who is skiing or horseriding.

Also, most people travelling to far flung countries are getting travel insurance.

It must be wildly frustrating for people like @Nap1983 to have to mop up after this type of surgery, particularly the solely cosmetic procedures. But yes, people do all kinds of things that cause themselves health problems, whether or the immediate fell over pissed or longer term lifestyle issues, and I don’t think you can cut this sub-group out exclusively.

She is very unwell, she does keep saying 'I'm just getting back what I put in, I'm entitled to this, I've put lots of money into the nhs, I'm getting my moneys worth now'

A family friend had a operation on his spine at a private hospitals and had a heart attack after surgery. They had to transfer him to the NHS hospital for treatment as the private hospital didn't have an intensive care unit.
More difficult if they have gone overseas for cosmetic surgery I'm not sure the NHS should be picking the tab up for that.

Our health board are farming out surgery to the private sector to put their mistake right but also to reduce their waiting lists.

Years ago you went to France for private surgery to save money, why is Turkey now the place to go?

@justasking111 because it's cheaper. 15k for a bypass here.

3k including flights, hotel stay for you and a friend and the surgery in turkey.

And like @Nap1983 says, we'll reverse the surgery, but we won't re do it, so infected breast implants won't be put back in, and they won't get any implants at all.

I can see this from both sides to be honest. I can understand the attraction of going abroad.

For example, I have wanted breast reduction surgery since the age of 14 when I was already a 32G and dealt with nasty comments and unwanted attention from that point until now (I'm now 33 and a 34HH) I have constant backache, shoulder pain and muscular indents in both shoulders from the scaffolding style bras I have to wear to support them. I've taken painkillers for years and had years of physio out of my own pocket, plus of course the sometimes debilitating anxiety, lack of confidence, and often vile sexual remarks from strange men when merely going about my daily life.

Will the NHS help me? Of course not, I've tried 5 different doctors across 4 GP surgeries across 3 counties - not one of them would even refer me due to my case not being "severe" enough. I could NEVER afford this surgery privately in the UK, its a minimum of 8k and I will never have that sort of money, nor the ability to borrow it. I could have it done within Europe for less than half of that - I don't see why I should not get treatment if surgery went wrong, when they wouldn't help me in the first place 🙈

@Waveacrossabay what is a bypass?

@justasking111 sorry gastric bypass, where the stomach is removed