Private surgery going wrong - NHS stepping in

[Garysmum]

I’m aware of lots and lots of people going abroad for surgery cosmetic and non-cosmetic and dentistry etc.

In some cases that surgery is going wrong. Patients return to the UK and then have to turn to the NHS for help.

For example there is a very unwell lady on TikTok who paid for her gastric sleeve in Turkey and she’s now been in hospital in the UK for days with complications. Poor woman is very unwell.

She received a lot of hate filled comments about her use of the NHS having paid for private surgery. It’s impossible to know the details - for example was she just speeding up a process that she would have had on the NHS or perhaps she wouldn’t have qualified for NHS surgery - we don’t know.

She had rightly pointed out if the surgery had been successful, she would have saved the NHS not only the cost of the operation itself but also costs associated conditions she had from being overweight.

i certainly would consider necessary non-cosmetic surgery overseas if I could afford it, it would make an appreciable difference to my quality of life and if I felt there was a backstop if things go wrong. As it stands that backstop does exist as we have the NHS. And I do agree that having private operations whether in the UK or abroad does take the strain off the NHS - e.g. knee replacement (my dad), hip replacement (friends aunt), tonsillectomy (godson) can speed up the process by years in many cases.

But I then wondered if there are any circumstances where the NHS could or should refuse to pay for after care? Some surgery might not be carried out to UK standards overseas or after care might be compromised by having only a week abroad etc?
Does it matter if it is cosmetic?

What I am saying is that there's not much difference between someone having surgery abroad and someone skiing abroad
the risk level is similar

This is so naive. Surgery of any kind, but especially high risk surgery like barbaric surgery, is massively higher risk than a skiing trip.

Even stuff like your risk of DVT is higher for weeks after having a general anaesthetic. No respectable surgeon is going to advise that you get on a plane a week or so after surgery. They're after your money, so of course they minimise the risks.

It's like this with a lot of things. A friend of mine - incredibly sadly - found that private IVF had led to a miscarriage at 12 weeks - and they instantly transferred her to the NHS to look after her. And I think they should in that case. But where do you draw the line?

I do think that the NHS should care for people in this circumstance. Once you start judging who deserves healthcare, where do you stop? Either we have universal healthcare or we don't.

But the comparisons to skiing trips are ridiculous. Surgery is significantly more risky than that kind of thing. If you're going to do it, you need to have your eyes open.

Bariatric surgery has been referred to by a few PP above, and this is an example of a higher risk procedure. If someone is a candidate for bariatric surgery, they will be a high risk patient by definition.

We aren't going to stop people from receiving treatment for broken bones while skiing in Austria. Or STIs from sex tourism destinations, why would we stop funding people trying to improve their health out of desperation?

Not having bariatric surgery is more high risk, life span is increased by bariatric surgery. Skiing is totally unnecessary.

The NHS is cutting back on a lot of these types of surgeries, not because of outcomes but because of money. So they must think it's a money saving option to only treat those cases that go wrong rather than the offer it on the NHS. Even with the cost of obesity

Most activities that people do in their day to day life are unnecessary! I could break my leg unnecessarily walking down the street this afternoon.

I agree that bariatric surgery is necessary and important, but that doesn't make it low risk. It also doesn't mean that travelling abroad for surgery similarly risky to skiing/cycling/[insert activity here].

Claiming that the risks are similar just sounds delusional.

And I think you must have missed the bit where I said that I think the NHS should fund it. I'm not arguing against the NHS caring for people who've had surgical complications.

I had a MUCH a higher standard of care having surgery (which went like clockwork) in Turkey than I’d have had on the nhs.

We have folk having accidents regularly climbing our mountain necessitating rescue services searching sometimes in appalling weather. Helicopters airlifting sometimes to specialist hospitals. The rescuers may privately roll their eyes sometimes but no-one holds back.

It's the same with sports injuries. The NHS doesn't judge

Perhaps there could be a compulsory insurance scheme for those having elective surgery overseas to cover follow up treatment in the U.K.

I do think our health care needs a nudge priority wise. Surely if you look at the patients age, responsible at work and home. It would be cheaper to do the surgery than nibbling at the edges all the time.

For instance a farmer needed a new hip waiting list three years, he waited in the meantime the other hip went and his knees trying to compensate for one bad hip so now one quick OP becomes four. That's bad business practice

@TootMootZoot

Yes those doing dangerous sports should have insurance, most competitive cyclists do for starters. I had insurance when I was scuba diving to cover air evacuation anywhere in the world to a decompression chamber for instance. Club members can get a group policy

If cosmetic work is infected, then it's no longer cosmetic so the NHS will have to deal with citizens who are ill.

As a taxpayer yes I object when these surgeries are purely cosmetic - if you are vain and stupid enough to pay thousands for boobs/arse/lip jobs etc then pay privately to have it sorted when it's gone wrong. FFS, as if the NHS wasn't overloaded enough.

Even stuff like your risk of DVT is higher for weeks after having a general anaesthetic. No respectable surgeon is going to advise that you get on a plane a week or so after surgery. They're after your money, so of course they minimise the risks.

This is true. I wasn't allowed to fly short haul for 6 weeks and long haul for 3 months after my recent hip replacement. The surgeon refused another patient's request for a fit to fly certificate a month post surgery.

Two family and had surgery they both had to inject anti coagulant into their stomachs for a time

Lots of people do unwise things all the time and the NHS deal with the fallout.
This is no different than horse riding or getting falling down drunk.
If we all stop doing risky things then the NHS would be a lot quieter, is that really what we want?

I think the NHS is perfectly justified to refuse after care/correction.

DH has recently had heart surgery that we had to pay privately for to jump the NHS queue as his quality of life was so poor on the medication. To think that people get treated instantly for botched cosmetic surgery makes me rage.

Ethically you can’t refuse care to anyone entitled to NHS treatment, regardless of how they became unwell or injured. Accident, botched surgery, drink or drugs.

However it does piss me off that I am using precious appointments in my already rammed primary care clinics to take sutures out of someone who had an op done privately but “can’t be bothered to go all the way back to London for the suture removal”, or to dress the dehisced wounds of someone who had budget surgery overseas but came back with no wound aftercare advice, dressings or follow up.

Oh and think very carefully about where you have your surgery, even in the UK. I did some agency work a long time ago in some large, chain, private hospitals. Well equipped, well staffed and with lovely rooms and doilies on the plate for your afternoon tea.

However come five or six o’clock all the doctors disappeared, and when I was in charge of a ward for the night shift and asked at handover about emergency procedures, crash trolley and crash team bleep numbers etc was told oh we don’t have any of that, just call 999.

Yep so did i

Just to throw this into the mix.
If a terrorist, blow themselves up while planting a bomb, designed to kill hundreds, the NHS would treat them. As they should imo. Healthcare should be without moral judgement.

Well it would be a different consultant. Cosmetic surgeon don't do heart surgery

Could the NHS sue the private clinics for the cost of aftercare?
I've always wondered why the NHS doesn't sue tobacco companies for the cost of treating cancer the way some US states have.