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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

10% gratuity added to bill

739 replies

Byz · 24/10/2022 14:19

AIBU to be annoyed by a 10% gratuity charge being automatically added to my bill at a restaurant?

Seafood restaurant in the North East, a little town, not a city.

For four of us our bill came to about £230 and a £23 tip was automatically added to the bill. It did state at the bottom of the menu an optional charge would be added but they didn't ask me before actually adding it.
When the waitress brought the bill over she reminded us about the gratuity and said she would remove it if we prefer but I think I should have been asked if I wanted it adding in the first place. It was quite embarrassing to ask for it to be removed. She was polite about it but did seem a bit surprised.

Food was good, service was good and I would have left £10 but it soured the evening a bit so I left nothing. I don't think tips should be expected in this country.

OP posts:
portico · 28/10/2022 13:39

I think service charges/gratuities are a check. The vendors assume presumed agreement. I tip, but I tip what I based on the value I feel I have been offered by the waiters/waitresses. I don’t like having this tip pre-defined in the receipt. They do do this, so customers feel to embarrassed to kick up a fuss to have the service charge removed.

OneTC · 28/10/2022 14:13

BigAl66 · 28/10/2022 13:39

So, if a customer was to decide that they have had a BAD service, would it be OK to automatically deduct 10%

I guess not.

I've never had what I would say is bad enough service to withhold a tip.

I normally boost the added service charge with cash tip of I consider the service to be very good. What I consider to be very good service varies from place to place and meal to meal though, ie it has to be appropriate for the type of restaurant or night out

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/10/2022 14:30

If your pay is shit either take it up with your employer or find a better job. That's what 99% of all other employees do on other industries

Precisely

FWIW I'm another who does tip unless the service has been really poor, but it's a bit ironic to read accusations of "selfish entitlement" directed at people who object, when perhaps the truly "entitled" are those who expect extra without ever offering a sensible reason beyond "It's always happened in hospitality"

BigAl66 · 28/10/2022 14:55

OneTC · 28/10/2022 14:13

I've never had what I would say is bad enough service to withhold a tip.

I normally boost the added service charge with cash tip of I consider the service to be very good. What I consider to be very good service varies from place to place and meal to meal though, ie it has to be appropriate for the type of restaurant or night out

I did not mean take the tip back, I meant deducing 10% from the original bill, and giving no tip.

limitedperiodonly · 28/10/2022 15:33

Brokendaughter · 27/10/2022 22:15

Seriously, if a waitress had saved someones life then got back to work & I'd seen it even on another table, I'd be leaving that woman an extra tip.

If that is not above & beyond I don't know what is!

Seriously no I wouldn't give that person an extra tip.on top of what I was planning to leave. How could you repay someone for saving someones life? If you can do it that's what you do. It's grotesque to imagine that someone could save your life but started negotiating.for a tip before doing it.

I've given an example of an extraordinary happening of choking which may not be that extraordinary in a restaurant setting.

People are banging on about only leaving a tip for service that goes above and beyond. It's only fair to ask them what they mean by that.

I've asked @lillila but she's not the only one. What is the above and beyond service that would loosen their purse strings? It can't be that hard.

OneTC · 28/10/2022 15:37

BigAl66 · 28/10/2022 14:55

I did not mean take the tip back, I meant deducing 10% from the original bill, and giving no tip.

I've not paid for part of a meal before because it wasn't right and waiting for it to be remade would have messed with the overall meal.

You could try I suppose but you agreed the price for the food and drink when you ordered and they didn't offer an OPTIONAL 10% reduction do it's not really comparable

BigAl66 · 28/10/2022 15:59

If any restaurant adds a 10% optional tip, I always take it off and leave nothing extra.

On the other hand, if they don't add a tip, I will normally tip them 105, but only 10% of the food, not the drinks, wine, beer etc.

In some of these establishments a 330ml bottle of Bud is £4.99 (that's £9.98 a pint), the same bottle in the supermarket is 60p.

The same with wine, a bottle can be £18 - £22 but only £6 - £8 in the supermarket.

They make enough profit on it already without adding a further 10%

BigAl66 · 28/10/2022 16:00

That should be 10% not 105

lilila · 28/10/2022 16:03

'above and beyond' to me would be making every every effort to make the experience as good as it can be, and giving the impression that they want to achive this. Examples would be attentive (I don't mean overbearing though!), happy to liaise to the chef with any queries (for example, to check if an ingredient may be changed)
I used to work in hospitality, always nice to recieved tips, but never expected
I now work in a hospital, I would sat that everyone in my team absolutely goes above and beyond for those in our care, and wouldn't dream of asking for anything in return. It is our job to help, which we do with pleasure.
I realise I might have contradicted myself a bit, but I don't begrudge giving a tip as much if I recieve great service (generally give tips because I feel I have to though)

sentientpuddle · 28/10/2022 16:55

ZiriForEver · 26/10/2022 00:48

Does a cashier in a shop spend an hour, two hours, maybe more, attending to your needs? Providing personalised service? Recommending & possibly tailoring items for your consumption? Communicating with other departments (in the case of waiting staff - bar/kitchen/management) to ensure you have the best possible experience? Sort out problems? Take the flack when issues do arise? Chat to you if that's what you want? Take pictures of your party even though they have 10 other tables to tend to? Order a taxi for you when you're ready to leave? Recommend where to go next? Ultimately making a contribution to your enjoyment of your lunch or your night out? All the while making everything seem smooth & effortless, whilst doing the same for however many other tables/customers they need to take care of in the space of their shift, for hours on end, on their feet, with a half hour break (may be paid or unpaid / food may or may not be provided at a staff rate).
@sentientpuddle

Why thought? I just want to eat my meal. I don't need any photos taken or taxi ordered, I can read the menu and I know what are my plans after. I don't see the waiting staff as my personal servants thankful for a coin I might toss on them, I consider them part of restaurant organisation and want to deal with them in professional manner, and being able to set and communicate the price is part of the business.

The point was that it is a hugely different job to a cashier in a shop. Those interactions/transactions are usually pretty short. When you go out to eat you may be looked after for 2+ hours. From start to finish. Haven’t you ever had your eating out experience ruined by shite service? I know I have. Or had it made so much better by really good service? I certainly have.

Waiting/bar/hotel staff etc. are expected to, and often do, go above and beyond*, whether you want, need or get that from them or not is neither here nor there.

*above and beyond the bare minimum of taking orders, bringing food/drinks, taking payment.

You want to eat your food and be left alone? Competent waiting staff know which customers want to be left alone to eat in peace and leave. They step it up or hold back, they react to each new interaction as it happens. There is, although some are unwilling to believe it, more to the job than simply taking and clearing away orders, sometimes for very large parties (and getting them right the vast vast majority of the time, or efficiently sorting out mistakes if they do happen), then bringing the bill.

When I first started in a restaurant having had no experience, I watched other experienced staff rake it in. I wondered how I could improve to make decent tips like they did. It made me improve very quickly. Tips are a great incentive. No doubt there should be workplace bonuses for lowly waiting staff but it’s management who get bonuses.

There were people who came into my old place of work who got reputations for being tight-fisted. We never went out of our way for those people, they got consistently very good basic service (because of the nature of the establishment) but nothing more. Same in the pub I moved onto. I think people who don’t tip are a bit tight, but I still respect their decision not to.

It is horrible though when you're out with a group and one stingy effer refuses to contribute to the tip. It sours the experience.
The worst ones are when everyone from the table contributes cash + tip for their portion of the bill, ONE person puts the entire bill on their card (sans tip if no service charge) & pockets the cash including tip. So the cheap bastard has taken everyone else's tip contribution & the rest of the party are none the wiser! I've seen that happen quite a lot over the years. Even if you disagree with the practice of tipping, you'd have to agree that that's a really shitty thing to do.

Since working in hospitality, I am more discerning and have higher expectations of service, and I am less inclined to tip when the service isn’t up to standard. For eg. if someone fucked up my order but dealt with it well and sorted everything out, I’d still tip. If someone was efficient but treated me like an inconvenience, I wouldn’t tip. I don’t believe in tipping no matter what, and I would take issue with automatic service charges applied to all bills, unless the service was consistently v.good or I was part of a large party. Where I worked we stated VERY clearly on the menu ‘10% service charge applied to tables of 8 or more’. At xmas this was applied to 6 or more. Again, made very clear on the menu and at the time of booking.

Whether you agree or disagree with the custom of tipping, the fact remains that it is part of restaurant culture here. Your choice to not partake. No big deal.

I think the major reason for the OP pile-on is because she came on MN to bitch about it and ended up being really knobby about the server.

Roselilly36 · 28/10/2022 16:56

This post is in the DM today

Blanketpolicy · 28/10/2022 17:08

You don't think twice about spending £230 on food, but then think just £10 is a generous tip!

Unless you mean you would leave a £10 tip and the other diners would leave similar, four people leaving a £2.50/head tip on a £230 bill is tight as..... a very tight thing

ForeverbyJudyBlume · 28/10/2022 18:21

As has been pointed out often on this thread, she didn’t leave. £10 – in the end she left a big fat zero!

juliaxxl80 · 28/10/2022 19:35

Exactly!

juliaxxl80 · 28/10/2022 19:39

Valid8me · 24/10/2022 14:24

It's their job to give good service. If they go above and beyond then fair enough but just for doing their job?

Exactly!

juliaxxl80 · 28/10/2022 19:43

mast0650 · 24/10/2022 14:25

£10 would have been very mean! I think 10% is expected and I would always leave 10% unless the service was really bad (very rare). The people I go out with are the same. It's becoming very common these days to include the service in the bill, though you do have the option to remove it. Because otherwise some people don't pay when they should, especially in large cities where there is less customer loyalty and repeat business. Plus it's easier now everyone uses cards and may not have cash to hand. It's pretty much the norm in London now. On the whole I prefer service to just be included rather than needing to add it separately as a tip. Perhaps we should move to a system where it is just included in the prices from the start.

The service has been already included in the price of food you order... Tips are gratitude not a payment for the service. It's always should be up to you to leave tips or not without being embarrassed by saying "NO" to something that is being forced on you

Burgoo · 28/10/2022 19:48

I'm a bastard when it comes to tipping. I will actively take the gratuity off if they don't ask first.

The fact is, it isn't really my job to pay people because their employers don't want to foot the bill. Pay them more or increase the price on the menu. That way I know exactly where I stand. I understand the issue of waiting staff losing out, and at the same time restaurants massively over-price things nowadays and I am simply not willing to just to add more and more to a bill.

I also don't get this idea that "good service" is a reason to tip. It's THEIR JOB! If I do a good job at work, I don't get a thank you and additional money. Why? Because I am paid to do the bloody job! This belief that we should be ecstatic over good service is ludicrous. It should be the standard.

The only time I WILL tip is if the waiting staff are run off their feet and it's obvious they are trying their best and it's looking very stressful. I tipped a young lady not long back (not a lot TBH but then I had to wait an hour for food as they were rammed) because she was run ragged. This was not a typical evening, apparently 2 out of 5 went off sick and she had to do it all.

If you want me to pay more then put it on the items on the menu. Then I can avoid your business and go somewhere that I get a good deal for my money. I'm not a charity and by tipping we are essentially subsidising shitty employers who don't want (or can't) pay their employees. That wouldn't wash in ANY other area of work. Imagine, going to a supermarket and paying for your goods and then paying the check-out-assistant because she was efficient in packing your items. Ludicrous.

Burgoo · 28/10/2022 19:51

@ZiriForEver Sorry but it's their job. If they dislike doing all that you mentioned, then find a job that doesn't require that. You can't take a job and then expect a tip for doing what you should be.

juliaxxl80 · 28/10/2022 20:25

OnTheRoll · 24/10/2022 15:52

I really dislike the saying "if you can afford to spend £ on food you can afford to leave £ in tips". It's nobody's business what I can afford. I may be able afford £200 for a meal but it doesn't mean that I have to eat in a restaurant that charges that much. It is my choice entirely how much I spent.

And prices have gone up recently, a lot. Our family of 4 went to a nice but not fancy at all place for dinner, we had four standard mains, two starters, one beer and two soft drinks. It came to £96. The kids had a burger each, I had a chicken shawarma on a plate. Nothing special. Starters were from £9 each. Deserts from £8.50 each. Not long ago they would be £5-6. Again, a very normal, pub-like place. We ordered our food, and the waiter brought it to us. That's all the service we needed and received. The hell I am leaving £10 on top as a tip, it was expensive as it is.

well said!

ZiriForEver · 28/10/2022 21:58

sentientpuddle · 28/10/2022 16:55

The point was that it is a hugely different job to a cashier in a shop. Those interactions/transactions are usually pretty short. When you go out to eat you may be looked after for 2+ hours. From start to finish. Haven’t you ever had your eating out experience ruined by shite service? I know I have. Or had it made so much better by really good service? I certainly have.

Waiting/bar/hotel staff etc. are expected to, and often do, go above and beyond*, whether you want, need or get that from them or not is neither here nor there.

*above and beyond the bare minimum of taking orders, bringing food/drinks, taking payment.

You want to eat your food and be left alone? Competent waiting staff know which customers want to be left alone to eat in peace and leave. They step it up or hold back, they react to each new interaction as it happens. There is, although some are unwilling to believe it, more to the job than simply taking and clearing away orders, sometimes for very large parties (and getting them right the vast vast majority of the time, or efficiently sorting out mistakes if they do happen), then bringing the bill.

When I first started in a restaurant having had no experience, I watched other experienced staff rake it in. I wondered how I could improve to make decent tips like they did. It made me improve very quickly. Tips are a great incentive. No doubt there should be workplace bonuses for lowly waiting staff but it’s management who get bonuses.

There were people who came into my old place of work who got reputations for being tight-fisted. We never went out of our way for those people, they got consistently very good basic service (because of the nature of the establishment) but nothing more. Same in the pub I moved onto. I think people who don’t tip are a bit tight, but I still respect their decision not to.

It is horrible though when you're out with a group and one stingy effer refuses to contribute to the tip. It sours the experience.
The worst ones are when everyone from the table contributes cash + tip for their portion of the bill, ONE person puts the entire bill on their card (sans tip if no service charge) & pockets the cash including tip. So the cheap bastard has taken everyone else's tip contribution & the rest of the party are none the wiser! I've seen that happen quite a lot over the years. Even if you disagree with the practice of tipping, you'd have to agree that that's a really shitty thing to do.

Since working in hospitality, I am more discerning and have higher expectations of service, and I am less inclined to tip when the service isn’t up to standard. For eg. if someone fucked up my order but dealt with it well and sorted everything out, I’d still tip. If someone was efficient but treated me like an inconvenience, I wouldn’t tip. I don’t believe in tipping no matter what, and I would take issue with automatic service charges applied to all bills, unless the service was consistently v.good or I was part of a large party. Where I worked we stated VERY clearly on the menu ‘10% service charge applied to tables of 8 or more’. At xmas this was applied to 6 or more. Again, made very clear on the menu and at the time of booking.

Whether you agree or disagree with the custom of tipping, the fact remains that it is part of restaurant culture here. Your choice to not partake. No big deal.

I think the major reason for the OP pile-on is because she came on MN to bitch about it and ended up being really knobby about the server.

@sentientpuddle
I agree that when a group pays, it isn't ok to pocket money intended for tip by rest of the table.

Otherwise... The reason why I visit a restaurant is getting a meal, not hiring a servant.
I kind of understand additional complexity of bigger group on celebratory dinner on Christmas day (thought I would expect them to actually spend a lot, so the restaurant has more money from the group and the owner should just pay the staff). Anyway, there is no reason to extend automatic tip expectation to the other end of scale - quick lunch, selecting from a limited daily offering, one simple drink per person, 40 minutes tops.
Once I visied a sit-down place where both ordering and paying was done from my mobile phone using QR codes on the table. When paying, the system suggested 8%, 10% or 15% tip. There were exactly two interactions there, first receiving drinks, second receiving meals. Do you see any reason to tip there?

OneTC · 28/10/2022 22:26

ZiriForEver · 28/10/2022 21:58

@sentientpuddle
I agree that when a group pays, it isn't ok to pocket money intended for tip by rest of the table.

Otherwise... The reason why I visit a restaurant is getting a meal, not hiring a servant.
I kind of understand additional complexity of bigger group on celebratory dinner on Christmas day (thought I would expect them to actually spend a lot, so the restaurant has more money from the group and the owner should just pay the staff). Anyway, there is no reason to extend automatic tip expectation to the other end of scale - quick lunch, selecting from a limited daily offering, one simple drink per person, 40 minutes tops.
Once I visied a sit-down place where both ordering and paying was done from my mobile phone using QR codes on the table. When paying, the system suggested 8%, 10% or 15% tip. There were exactly two interactions there, first receiving drinks, second receiving meals. Do you see any reason to tip there?

I wouldn't tip for that and that's cheeky for the restaurant to take away the service interaction and then treat it like it's service.

Sorry but it's their job. If they dislike doing all that you mentioned, then find a job that doesn't require that. You can't take a job and then expect a tip for doing what you should be.

Yeah but their job customarily pays tips, self confessed bastards aside. People saying don't pay them are absolutely not arguing in favour of the status quo. You're arguing in favour of reducing someone's earnings

OneTC · 28/10/2022 22:31

I went to a really nice restaurant and it was a brilliant night and then at the end they just brought a fucking qr code and it launched a thing to pay on your phone, removing the need to interact with your server again. And he'd been a delight tbh, helpful with dish selections, funny, very in step with general vibe of the restaurant and attached bar. I told him at the end that I thought that bit was crap cos it's a bit spoons but otherwise we had loved the meal and service and night out.

I'm not keen to see that kind of thing in a nice place

sentientpuddle · 29/10/2022 10:40

@ZiriForEverOnce I visied a sit-down place where both ordering and paying was done from my mobile phone using QR codes on the table. When paying, the system suggested 8%, 10% or 15% tip. There were exactly two interactions there, first receiving drinks, second receiving meals. Do you see any reason to tip there?

Absolutely not. There's a place in my home town I used to really like, food, drinks, atmosphere, location, one of those reliably good spots. Post-covid they introduced the dreaded QR code. They haven't returned to normal ordering. The last time I went was back in early summer. Walked in as usual to see staff milling about & behind the bar. Staff directed us to a table & explained how to order. I had to sit there and download a fucking QR code reader having previously deleted one because I didn't use it then s

sentientpuddle · 29/10/2022 10:44

Fs. Then go through the online menu, then set up a fucking account and payment through the app! It took fucking ages! In the time it took for the staff to seat us & explain their ordering system, they could have taken our order (2 pints!) and brought them to the table. I haven't been and won't be back.

Redup · 29/10/2022 11:03

HenryHenrietta · 27/10/2022 08:25

@lillila

This hasn't been responded to maybe because it is quite irrelevant.

If you want to tip your mechanic have at it!

There are social conventions which mean that most reasonable people expect to tip in restaurants. Some people also tip in cabs or hairdressers. Most people tip delivery drivers too.

Saying but "what about...? Why don't they get any tips?" is literally whataboutery. Like saying why don't we take our shoes off and fart loudly in nice restaurants or pick apart a steak with our bare hands in nice restaurants? Why don't we bring out our ipad and stick the footie on while we're eating our Michelin star dinner? You just don't.

If you feel that strongly about giving tips to other workers, you go for it. But don't use "well I don't tip the lady in tesco so I won't be tipping you either harrumph" as an excuse not to tip as it would make you sound awful. Not saying you would do this btw, but just in case!

What? "Most people tip delivery drivers too". Never heard of this in my 50+ years