10% gratuity added to bill

[Byz]

AIBU to be annoyed by a 10% gratuity charge being automatically added to my bill at a restaurant?

Seafood restaurant in the North East, a little town, not a city.

For four of us our bill came to about £230 and a £23 tip was automatically added to the bill. It did state at the bottom of the menu an optional charge would be added but they didn't ask me before actually adding it.
When the waitress brought the bill over she reminded us about the gratuity and said she would remove it if we prefer but I think I should have been asked if I wanted it adding in the first place. It was quite embarrassing to ask for it to be removed. She was polite about it but did seem a bit surprised.

Food was good, service was good and I would have left £10 but it soured the evening a bit so I left nothing. I don't think tips should be expected in this country.

In happy it's on the front page of the menu

£10 on a £230 bill isn’t even 5%. Between waiting staff, bar staff and kitchen staff, that’s maybe £2 each if that. How stingy.

But lets say that they went to a much cheaper restaurant and only spent £50 total. £10 tip on that is 20% - really generous I think. But that's still only £2 each once it's split between waiting staff, bar staff, and kitchen staff.

Last time I went out for dinner our waitress was serving at least 6 tables during the time we were there. Even if each staff member only gets £2 from each table, that's an extra £12 in less than 2 hours (which won't be subject to tax/NI etc). So effectively it's over £6 an hour extra on each staff members hourly wage. That's more than a lot of very skilled people earn at my work.

It's one thing tipping when it's optional and leaving cash on the table for great service. It's another for an 'optional' 15% tip added to the electronic device automatically when asked to pay where the only way to remove it is to ask the server to remove it. Especially if the service was slow and awful. It's not optional if it's already added

Yeah let's make hospitality sector work even less appealing.

How can it be less appealing to restructure your pricing in a more honest way that guarantees your staff a certain (higher) wage?

How does having to rely on goodwill and hoping that people will be kind enough to hand over a large part of the income that you're anticipating encourage people into the job?!

That said, I think that, whilst plenty of people do like the whole experience of a waitress/waiter actively serving them, answering questions, recommending dishes or wines and being at their beck and call, plenty of other people don't want all the fuss and would rather just place their order and have it brought out to them - like going to Argos vs having a personal shopper. Some people find it helpful and considerate when the waitress asks several times if everything is OK, whilst others see it as an intrusion whilst they just want to talk with their friends.

People are saying how essential it is to tip the serving staff because of how very involved they are and all the little touches they provide, even though some customers really don't actually want all that in the first place. That's why using self-service checkouts and one-click ordering on Amazon are so popular - which is not to say that there aren't also plenty of people who like the experience of being made to feel special and actively 'served' at all stages.

In happy it's on the front page of the menu

That's a start, at least. The same-size print as all the stated prices of the meals?

As are many other employees!
I used to be a waitress, I know how hard it is. I now work for the NHS, which is more physically tough and soul destroying. I know which job I feel I deserve tips in!

How can it be less appealing to restructure your pricing in a more honest way that guarantees your staff a certain (higher) wage?

Because it caps it. I've said that again and again. The places I worked and wanted to work were places that you could do very well from tips if you put the effort in. But I'm talking full clowning type establishments where you're meant to perform. This is how I selected places to work. Not on the hourly rate (about £3 at the time iirc).

I understand that nmw changes things a little but presumably there were customers in there who were also on £3 in a different job

No.

It's small print of course. I prefer it on the bottom of each menu page, or first page with food on. Cos people don't really check covers or blurb pages very often if they are there

Because it caps it. I've said that again and again.

So are you saying that serving staff want the best of both worlds - a socially-enforced minimum tip (with people accusing you of tightness and shaming you if you don't) but also the opportunity to earn more than that? On top of the NMW?

If your opinion is that waiting staff are in a lucrative job - guaranteed NMW, customary minimum 10% tips AND more on top of that if they 'perform' - and are in an empowered position where they can really cash in if they use their skill and charm, then fine; but the clear vibe I've been getting throughout this thread (and every other thread on tipping) is that waiting staff are poorly paid and are left desperately holding their hands out for more money in order to be able to make ends meet.

It's small print of course.

Yep, as I suspected. I highly doubt they have any promotions or invitations to spend extra on sauces/side orders/puddings in the same small print.

There are many different experiences and also I think much of the market and consequently service levels have already changed. I don't even know if places like that really exist or are in fashion now but I certainly have friends who chase around more lucrative jobs (both in basic but also in massive tip potential) in higher end restaurants for the same reason.

Yeah working in a Yates is shit, no doubt

And I wouldn't call my earnings lucrative by any stretch but they made the job appealing. I could have been a cashier or something on the same basic with a load of drudge and no extra reward, but in a till it would have been acceptable to sit there and do nothing more than run it up and say the price. No one would care because no one is looking for a maximum experience in the supermarket

Would you ask your builder to only pay for the materials after they have carried out the work satisfactorily or do you pay the labour without thinking? Service is paying for labour, it pays part of the staff's wages. It's not difficult to understand. It's optional in case the service was bad not because you don't agree with paying for labour.

So you left £2.50 each as a tip?

You know that the £2.50 you left will be shared amongst other people, like the pot washers, table clearers etc.....don't you?

You know that your food bill covers the food, the chefs who made it, the cleaners, the electricity, the building rates, the menu prints etc.....and probably a small profit although not guaranteed with the cost of food currently.

You know that most of the staff get paid minimum wage and rely on the service element to live?

Just because you would prefer a system where the labour/service is included in the food price doesn't mean that you should refuse to pay it.

If you can afford that on a meal, pay the tip. Between four of you it's hardly much extra.

I would rather the bill was just the bill and serving staff paid better but that won't be happening anytime soon.

Pay in cash though as I've heard some waiting staff don't get the card tips. 😯

So you left £2.50 each as a tip?

No they didn't

They didn't leave a tip at all!

Further to this I was young. I did have rent and stuff to pay but it was cheap I just wanted money for partying and getting shitfaced. I do think that much of the quality is already gone from very much of the hospitality sector already as there's no career considered for most people in the industry. It used to be made up of students and older people who had been doing it for years and helped underpin a good level of service that people genuinely didn't resent tipping for.

I think it's rare that you actually encounter fully professional service anymore outside of very high end restaurants and even then they can be a bit hit and miss but I also think that despite the nmw that rents and stuff are not so comparatively cheap now. Living close enough to a central London restaurant that you can rent there viably is unlikely so high transport costs

@Vickstory79

We DO live in a country where the FULL cost of goods and services, including labour, are included in the price we pay. There is no obligation to tip anyone. If companies think that their staff deserve to be laid higher, then increase your costs and pay your staff more. That way it's all above board, everyone is taxed corrected and if benefits are claimed, they are claimed on actual earnings, not the lower earnings paid by the employer and ignoring all tips that so many people think these staff are owed!

We do it as a social convention and yes have done for years, it started long before we had a NMW.

I always used to tip waiting staff and did think poorly of friends and family who didn't. Since the introduction of a NMW, I personally have phased out doing this.

I only ever really tip wait staff now if I am part of a large group as I do recognise that's its harder work to ensure 10 drinks/meals are ready at the same time than 4. However, I would tip based on the number of people served, not on the bill.

I all these posters calling non tippers rude, tightwads, telling us we shouldn't go out to eat are the ignorant ones. Just because you choose to do something, doesn't make it the only way to do something.

I guess this is one of the reasons I don't go to 'restaurants' and prefer the more relaxed pub style. I don't want to be waited on so much or have that personal service so many people seem to feel waiting staff give.

Fair enough, then, OneTC - at least you're owning it

Thanks for your insights - interesting

Would you ask your builder to only pay for the materials after they have carried out the work satisfactorily or do you pay the labour without thinking? Service is paying for labour, it pays part of the staff's wages. It's not difficult to understand. It's optional in case the service was bad not because you don't agree with paying for labour.

I've never had a builder, other tradesman, car mechanic or whatever quote me the price of materials and leave it up to me to decide if I want to give them any extra so that they can actually earn a living. Just like they don't ask me to contribute to diesel for their van or their phone contract - they run a business and factor their prices in when quoting them.

They may break it down separately - partly to avoid complaints about ripping people off, if they're charging you £1,000 for a job but having to hand £900 of that straight over to the supplier for parts/materials; or to ask for some money upfront for cashflow reasons - but they never leave me in any doubt that "If you want me to fully supply and complete this job for you, you will need to pay me £XXX."

Also, as we've already touched on about the issue of a quiet, undemanding couple who order lobster and champagne vs a big, loud, messy family group all have pasta and coke, the percentage basis is just silly and bears no relation at all to the value of the service offered. Why would you pay a tradesman far more money for his effort for ordering a 24-carat-gold-plated mirror and screwing it to the wall than you would for him to replumb half of your bathroom and identify and replace leaky old pipes to fit a brand new budget shower that only cost £100 from the supplier?

If it's so easy and lucrative please explain why there's an acute shortage of hospitality workers.

There's acute shortages in most lower paid sectors at the moment and there's a big difference between 25-30 years ago and now in terms of what your money gets you. NMW staff are worse paid than I was on when on £3 an hour

If it’s charged as a service charge and payed through a tronc system they are taxed. In fact a waiter who accepts cash tips, technically should declare these as income and pay tax on them, charging tips as service charge makes this easier.

You spent £230 and left no tip at all?

I’m cringing for you. I’d be too embarrassed to ever go back.

I do give tips, usually because I feel I have to. if someone has gine above and beyond i am happy to do so.

I can't see how it is irrelevant when compared to other minimum wage jobs, including those who provide a service..I probably am being a bit dense, but really can't see the difference (apart from it bring difficult and not 'the norm' to tip in most cases)