To think working class shows?

[MrsBonnie]

I work in a lovely school where they’ve all had very different upbringings to me. Very much working class here. Sometimes I think it shows with little things I’ve noticed.

Having sugar in tea, using a tumble drier, not having a cleaner, using the wrong glasses for different drinks (I.E using the same one for everything!)… what else am I missing that excludes me from the club 😂 sometimes I will mention something like the above and get “oh I never use a tumble drier” … then I just think oops have I said something weird there?

Sometimes I think they’re judging me with things I say and do but I hope not! I grew up being homeless at a certain point, council houses, single teen (but amazing) mum, a very specific type of circle. I feel like Mum did everything she could to get us out of that way of life, but I can’t help but feel I don’t belong sometimes. Or that I stick out like a sore thumb. Am I being daft? Imposter syndrome a little bit!

To be clear I meant the actual rich. Working. Class and middle are the same. I’ll limp the poors on it as well.

But those with real wealth network and really have this net of opportunity for themselves. It’s wild.

job didn’t work out? Here’s another fancy opportunity

need to be connected with this special advanced field of study person ? Ok!

You need your daughter in law to get a nice job? Ok! All done!

Just something I noticed.

My step dad comes from a family who had (at one time) a country “seat”. Beautiful big house, family portraits and silver, the whole shebang. The money was frittered away by some profligate gambler somewhere along the line but he’s still pretty posh (and utterly lovely to boot). He has sugar in his tea…

Agree, I’m a MC teacher and I feel out of place! Shows why the standard of education in this country is declining (not a criticism of working class people, just that teaching has become a working class job, not a profession).

As for OP, just be yourself!

If you are judging people for not having the right drinking glasses then I am sure that you do stick out - as a snob. You say people are judging you, but your post is nothing but judgements about others.

For the record what makes you middle class?

I have read this twice and am trying really hard to understand how you could mean this is as anything other than a criticism of WC teachers.

Teaching remains a graduate profession. It sounds like you want to have a word with the universities who let in all those ghastly working-classes.

And since when did tumble dryers become a class issue? How strange! I use a combo of airers, dehumidifier, tumble dryer. Hardy clothes go in the tumble dryer (try to avoid using it too much as it’s expensive and creases clothes).

Most clothes go on airer in spare room with dehumidifier as I find they crease less. If its summer, I’ll stick the airer in a corner of the garden. We got rid of our washing line years ago as it didn’t look nice across the garden. My bit of luxury in laundry is that If I’ve left the clothes up on her days in, my cleaner will fold and put away.

If you have a busy life (I work FT), you do what’s most convenient, ‘class’ doesn’t come in to it as its just plain weird.

I left teaching 2 years ago. All the teachers in my very big school were definitely MC.

Gites in France, holidays in Tuscany, art galleries, film festivals.Shopped in John Lewis. I’ve just sat and in my head gone through every classroom. Everyone was MC.

We had several doctors on the staff.

But teaching didn’t used to be a graduate profession did it?

@Quveas go back and read my OP, plus the others I’ve posted. You’ve taken my post the opposite way.

Please explain to me how this is not a criticism. My comprehension skills are pretty good and I can’t find a way to interpret this without concluding that you see a correlation between more working-class graduates entering teaching and an overall decline in education standards (which are not declining over time, incidentally. The problem is resources after twelve years of systematic underfunding).

There have always been university-educated teachers. Teacher training colleges were not universities, however.

@jetadore wins the award for the most condescending and classist comment on the thread. And that’s saying something for a Mumsnet class thread!

Agree, I’m a MC teacher and I feel out of place! Shows why the standard of education in this country is declining (not a criticism of working class people, just that teaching has become a working class job, not a profession).

The standard of education has declined because they lot those poor working class ones go to uni and become teachers?
Teaching is still absolutely a profession, what specifically do you think was of a higher standard when ‘only MC’ people could teach?

I can’t believe you are teaching some of the youth today with attitudes like this.

I feel a Mrs Bucket binge coming on after this thread! 😊
I have a tumble dryer, a cleaner and a DH from the badlands of the east end of Glasgow who "networks" as well as any posh boy. He's unreal.
Having a bit of a class identity crisis on that basis now.
No sugar in my tea though - perish the very thought.

"Shows why the standard of education in this country is declining" WTAF?

This is blatantly a criticism of working class people. Clearly in your opinion not good enough to teach to a high standard. It reminds me of when I started my social work degree back in the 80s and one of my cohort said the trouble with 'poor' children is that they smell. Absolutely appalling. I'm also appalled by your comment. I for one am very pleased my granddaughter will not be taught by a bunch of middle-class, superior-feeling snobs.

@Endlesssummer2022 social mobility not only grinding to a halt, but being reversed, as evidenced by dd s universities application….they seem to assume that if your parents have a degree and have a MC job that generations of the family must have been born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

I’m a middle-class teacher who went to Oxford. I cringe to type that but I mention it only to make it clear that you do not speak for me or my colleagues. You are a disgusting snob.

OP I know exactly what you mean. I think the examples you’ve used aren’t particularly representative of what you are trying to say.

I’m from a resolutely WC family (although my mum had definite “aspirations” for my sibling & I) but my DH’s family & most friends are MC. There’s just subtle differences in attitude about things. DH’s mum for instance seem happy to use a £15 basic kettle that she’s had for 8 years yet is unhappy if she doesn’t have a variety of hoidays, mini breaks and “experiences” though out the year plus regular meals out, theatre, etc with a wide circle of friends. Her house is not dirty per se but definitely slightly grubby round the edges, all of their family are the same.

My mum has a sparkling clean house full of on-trend items (from Dunelm mostly!) and a hi-tech fancy kettle. Yet even though she could afford to do more holidays etc she chooses not to, having fun in life just doesn’t seem to be as much of a priority. I’ve noticed the MC people I know have a more positive attitude to life and an attitude of “I deserve this, so I’ll do it.” My mum can be very negative, a “life is tough, get on with it approach.” I hate it and try not to replicate it but I see myself sliding towards the same - I guess it’s hard to change when you’ve brought up with ingrained attitudes.

Mine & DH’s different core attitudes have also been weirdly revealed recently. Starting to think about secondary schools & I am of the opinion that you should do the very best you can by your children even if you have to make sacrifices . I want to send DD to private school - we could just about afford it if I got a better paid job (achievable) and we gave up a few luxuries. Interestingly my dh isn’t willing to sacrifice his lifestyle and thinks she’ll be alright at the local comp. I do think there’s a certain type of MC attitude of being very laissez faire about things like this.

Oof, I guess I really put my foot in my mouth there. For one I actually detest the class system in this country and the fact it’s so entrenched, and don’t even want to be framing discussion in these terms.
For two, those who have rightly pointed out that underfunding is the root cause of the decline in education, I totally agree. The point I was trying (badly) to make was that this underfunding teaching has devalued teaching as a profession. In my experience/opinion there are teachers coming through who lack the requisite English, maths skills, computer literacy and even subject knowledge to teach well. There’s a massive teacher shortage and they’re taking anyone. Now before everyone goes ballistic, I’m NOT trying to equate those things with being working class! Teaching is an very undesirable job now for high quality graduates. And I’m NOT saying middle class = high quality. I suppose I’m saying, if a working class person aspires to be middle class they won’t do it via teaching anymore due to the the salary and status. I KNOW this is caused by underfunding making teaching very difficult and stressful. But teaching should aspire to high educational standards (call that an ivory tower if you will) and it doesn’t exclude working class people, because there are top, talented working class graduates, they just don’t end up in teaching!

@jetadore you’re just coming off even more elitist with your follow up.

I agree with her. The teachers coming through now are not the quality they were 20 years ago.

I’ve been with younger colleagues who can’t even write properly. I couldn’t believe or even understand the grammar on one NQT’s slide show. How could the kids understand it if this is the case?

The role has been devalued over the years. Obviously, not all new staff are like this.But l saw more examples of this as my time in teaching progressed.

Hey OP.
I experience this on a daily basis. Major imposter syndrome.

I also work in a school in a very well off area, and I come from the poverty stricken area just down the road (which we collect for, for food banks etc.)
I have experienced a lot due to my upbringing. Lost a parent quite traumatically which was loosely related to drugs, I have alcoholism running in the family, I was a late teen pregnancy/ young mum.
I am a textbook ACE child.

But, I get up everyday, do my job to the best of my abilities, and each day (give or take certain days of the month!) I feel more secure in myself and my role.

I totally understand how you feel.
You need to tell yourself that you have every right to be working there, and to feel valued for the work you do and for who you are.
You need to make your peace with that in yourself though.
You are enough 💗

@jetadore I know what you are saying.

I think teaching isn’t where all the “clever” a-level students go now. They either want law, medicine, or economics (to earn maximum cash!) or have a specific job in mind. A talented a-level art student I know is going into textile design with the aim of working as head designer at a creative international company - years ago she may have been a fantastic art teacher.

Some of DD’s recent primary teachers have been lovely people but not the brightest sparks! I recently attended a meeting with one and his presentation contained some absolute clangers in spelling and grammar.

@Summerfun54321

^I think the people who worry about this kind of thing are often just self conscious people who worry a lot about their own identity and how they fit in to the world. A lot of us couldn’t give a shit about all this class stuff. It’s 2022, the world has changed.^

It's a fact that WC have been discriminated against because of their background especially in professional roles.

It's obvious from the educated posters with WC backgrounds and from living experience.

Would you suggest to any other discriminated against groups are just self conscious, worrisome people, who don't know where they'll fit.

Are you MC by any chance? 🤭