To dump my Ukrainian guests as homeless?

[razzbo]

It's not as evil as it sounds, bear with me. They have been living with me for 6 months and their jobs here have ended. I live in a very rural place, they don't drive and don't speak English. There is basically no chance of them getting other jobs here. The jobs they had here were given out of charity to be honest. They have found new jobs in Scotland - all 3 of them working in the same place, full time, £10 an hour, where there are other Ukrainians. Which I think they are very lucky to get considering they speak no English.

So we looked at finding them somewhere to rent but they looked at the price of rent and said no. They wanted me to find them a new sponsor so they could live for free. I tried my hardest but the council said no, and facebook said no. There are no sponsors. The council said to try the housing associations for a cheap place so I tried them all. Took forever to get answers out of them but the answers were no. They still won't rent privately. Then one of the housing association people suggested I make them homeless so that they get given temporary accommodation. My guests were up for this. I phoned around and found out all the details. 5 separate council employees (both here and in Scotland) said it was an OK idea and that they would be given somewhere to live. The plan was made - I was meant to be taking them next week and leaving them there. I phoned the council in Scotland today to just check the times of the homelessness drop-in and to check whether there was anything else I needed to know. Again, all was fine.

THEN the woman phoned me back to say she'd spoken to her manager who had said that because they are in England now and are registered at my address, they can't be made homeless in Scotland (even though they have jobs there, i.e. a reason to be there). She said that if I took them to the drop-in the council would not accept responsibility for them and would not give them housing and I would actually be making them PROPERLY HOMELESS and they would be sleeping on the street.

I cried on the phone. Basically, the truth is that I have to get rid of them. I can't handle them living in my house any more. I have been so kind and nice to them but it's been too much. They won't leave unless they have jobs to go to as they just want the money. They refuse to rent. I could make them homeless here but I would have to live with them hating me and crying at me (they do this a lot to get their way) while waiting for their new accommodation.

I was so close to being free. If I'd never phoned the council today I could have just taken them to Scotland and left them and been none the wiser about it all. What should I do? If it was you, would you just take them anyway? Surely the council has a duty of care to anyone who turns up saying they are homeless? Surely if you are a homeless human being it doesn't matter which county you last lived in? Also they have a child with them. Surely they will be given somewhere to stay if I take them to the drop-in?

Have you taken in refugees @SarahAndQuack ?

Perhaps you might take them in? They're lovely!

No, because I spent a (fairly small!) amount of time looking into it, and came to the sensible conclusion that I wasn't equipped to do it.

What are these jobs in Scotland? It might be that some 'worker's accommodation' is provided, very possibly. Quite probably not completely suitable for a child, but then also possibly suitable for a child, depending on perspective.

After all, many UK children already live in unacceptable conditions with most being loved and cared for by their parents. Wherever your Ukrainian guests end up they'll be safe as it's deteriorating back home.

Give them a written paper and verbally explain they need to be gone by xx. They can take the Paper to their Ukrainian Rep to translate if they appear confused.

You've really done your bit for the best of reasons, I think at least 1 of the 4 will remember you for it so don't feel badd.

Absolutely unreal - not you @razzbo, this situation.

You gave them hospitality when they had to flee their own country. My heart breaks for them, it really does, but you were willing and selfless enough to accommodate a family. Is there no guidance on this situation? Surely our Govt that asked this of people like you must've put something in place - it wasn't going to be forever. That's probably a stupid question tbf.

They can earn but aren't willing to pay rent - now that is taking the piss. You need to sit them down, tell them your hospitality was temporary, explain that they have the opportunity to earn and that they'll need to then rent. I'd try to look for accommodation with them that they can rent. If they refuse, you kick them out. They are no longer your problem. You did your bit and it sounds like there is a little CF going on here.

And, I will repeat: I don't think the OP is in the least to blame for wanting her people to move on, or for feeling that the situation isn't working. I am not knocking her for that at all. What I think is pretty awful is to pretend it's their fault for things that are entirely predictable, rather than honestly admitting she took on more than she could manage.

I don't think that anyone expected the war to endure, nor indeed had they factored in the catastrophic global fiscal implications of Russia cutting off our oil and gas supplies.

In February, we were in a very different financial position to the one that we're in now.

incredibly judgemental 🙄

@1forthemoney2fortheroad are you honestly too bigoted to see that there could be an option between a) OP hosting them forever and b) dumping them on the roadside like a box of unwanted kittens?

If you have bothered to read the thread you will see the OP has been given lots of advice as to how to get support to help them move from her. Honestly though you sound like you wouldn't be happy with that, do you just want to see people that you consider inferior, suffer? You sound gleeful on this thread, it's abhorrent.

I think a possible explanation was that Ukrainians hoped they could save money while here and working and/or send money home. But what is really hard to factor in is the cost of living.Different things cost more here - housing for example - and that is what doesn’t translate.
We’d not get how people spend their money in peacetime Ukraine and would make really weird decisions too and have unrealistic expectations even as non-refugees.
But it sounds like you can’t do anymore and at best you can try to suggest some workable ideas of how and where they could live and work. Plus if they factor in the housing benefit element then the economics might change?
My guest is moving on next month, she has lots of possibilities and good English. I’ve said I can help her with advice but it is not realistic for me to host longer. I think she can make things work here now so I’ve done my bit to give her a start.

Its not an unusual mindset for people to send money home, especially if they've got family back home. Oh, and if the family are living in a war zone

Quite right, but it's surely better if this is done with what's left after paying for their own basic needs rather than expecting someone else to enable it

@Icantthinkwhat Totally agree with you.

She has lined up jobs for all 3, she has offered to find them somewhere to rent. What part of me saying that they can afford to rent have you translated as me stating that they should be dumped on the road like kittens?

SO many people went in for this with the best of intentions, but stunningly naively.
My voluntary work is in this area and the people I know who've taken in Ukranians are fellow volunteers. So they went into it with their eyes open, as they're aware of the needs and stresses of refugees. But even they are struggling now. It's a long time to have people sharing your home, and to not be able to have visitors (or even family) to stay because you no longer have a spare room. One quite elderly couple have a mother and teenaged son staying with them. They had forgotten what it's like to have a teenager around and how much a teenaged boy can eat. They seem to be paying for their guests food, so he's costing them a small fortune. And they seem to have little intention of movinng on.

But the problem seems to be, that they refuse to pay rent anywhere. Is that predictable and not their fault, that they would refuse to rent somewhere?

It seems to me quite predictable that people with poor English, living in a country where they have been isolated, would be very unsure of what they should do.

That doesn't mean they're in the right - I think they are not.

I'll just leave you with this thread as a parting glass.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4463242-to-think-Boris-is-begging-Putin-to-bring-forward-his-invasion-of-Ukraine

@lanadelgrey I think that's a really good point. I've worked with people who have moved here from many different countries (outside of Western Europe) and pretty much everyone I can think of was shocked at the cost and/or limited space of our accommodation in the UK. We're known for having a good standard of living, and a lot of our luxury items (cars, clothes, furniture, tech) are better quality/more affordable here than in other countries, so people see the wages and how many ordinary people have nice things and then are unprepared for the living costs.
I worked a lot with homeless men who were from Romania, Latvia and Lithuania (before they were entitled to any help here) and they pitied me for having to live in a house without 'land' ie space to grow vegetables, or build myself a second house in the grounds for my in-laws! They were baffled that I had a good full time job and couldn't afford a big house.
They had assumed that the grand houses they saw in the UK (eg 4 bed detached homes) would be affordable to anyone in a professional job and had no idea that it was either very high earners or due to inheritance.

@Puzzledandpissedoff you've quoted my post out of context, it was in response to a PP suggesting that sending money home was specific to Ukrainians culturally being 'grabby'.

I wasn't agreeing that it was right to send all their money home, just that the expectation to support family back home is far from unusual for many people who move from another country.

Best leave them all rotting in Poland or dying in Ukraine then.

People helped. But also expect people to help themselves too.

This is not an unreasonable expectation. It's also one that many Ukrainians also have so isn't cultural.

One friend has a Ukrainian guest who is utterly disgusted by some of the freeloading she's seen from other Ukrainians locally. To the point that she's embarrassed, avoids these people and is massively apologetic to her host for it, even though she's not responsible in any way.

There are limits for hosts. And they shouldn't be vilified for doing something that most people wouldn't. They gave the benefit of the doubt and frankly we could do with more of that.

Take them, drop them off in Scotland, wish them all the best with their new jobs/digs/friends/lives, and drive away happy that you did an amazing thing.

Ah - apologies, Proteinpudding, and yes I agree it's far from being an unusual expectation

From that thread (7th post on the thread), I'll draw your attention to this point made by none other than my good self on the 25th January 2022.

"Putin is not remotely concerned about any UK leader. The EU are more of a threat but he has them over a barrel as they also have insufficient fuel. We can't impose sanctions on Russia or it effectively plummets the entire EU and UK into a desperate recession as there will be no fuel."

It was entirely predictable and I even predicted it lol (I don't a crystal ball). Well I predicted what would happen if we played hardball, I didn't predict us deciding to play hardball!

I never quite got why we have refused to assassinate Putin though.

@1forthemoney2fortheroad given the OP asks if it's ok for her to drive them to Scotland and leave them outside a council office, and you responded when people challenged that 'well what else should she do, drive them to Scotland every day' then you didn't appear to be considering there were any other options.
Perhaps proof read your posts before posting if you don't want to be mis translated. Other posters have given lots of helpful advice rather than just sticking the boot in.