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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Part time nhs staff

50 replies

Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 16:47

Posting for traffic so apologies. Can anybody that works in the nhs, part time please explain to me if your AL and bank holiday entitlement is in your contract?
I have had my contract through and after 4 mistakes regarding AL I’ve now been issued tbe final one, but it only states the annual leave I have remaining from now until the end of March.
Theu are refusing to tell me, or state what my full years entitlement will be.
They are also saying it’s up to my manager to sort out my BH entitlement.
The team I work in will be closed on BH and my understanding is, BH leave should be calculated on a pro rata basis the same as annual leave. So for example, full time staff get 8 days BH. Someone working half those hours would get 4.

i have 2 boxes on my contract. One says
‘annual leave entitlement’
and one says
‘annual leave remaining’.
In the first box they have put the amount I have remaining between now and March. Second box is empty.

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 20/10/2022 16:52

It's pro rata nursingnotes.co.uk/nhs-annual-leave-calculator/

AcornsUnderfoot · 20/10/2022 16:53

Firstly, if you're part-time in the NHS, leave entitlement should always be worked out in hours not days.

Your leave entitlement may not be in your contact as it varies due to length of previous service, so that isn't unusual. I've previously had to provide proof of length of service before amount of leave was confirmed, so the exact amount isn't in my contract, just the varying entitlements if that makes sense?

Realityloom · 20/10/2022 16:54

It's should be clear to see on the roster. What you have used so far and the remaining AL you have left.

beeswain · 20/10/2022 17:06

Basic entitlement for under 5 years service is 27 days A/L based on 7.5 hr days, so 202.5 hours.
Standard working week is 37.5 hrs.
So, if you work e.g. 3 x 7.5 days a week that is 0.6 of a whole time equivalent so your leave would be 202.5 hrs x 0.6 = 121.5 hrs. But taking into account your days off, you would only need to take 22.5 hrs to get a full week off.
Bank holidays are usually either added to A/L if the service works bank holidays (so you would be entitled to 8 days x 0.6=4.8 days =36 hours). You will need to check with eroster or HR but presumably your A/L is calculated excluding if your service doesn't operate B/H

AcornsUnderfoot · 20/10/2022 17:23

beeswain · 20/10/2022 17:06

Basic entitlement for under 5 years service is 27 days A/L based on 7.5 hr days, so 202.5 hours.
Standard working week is 37.5 hrs.
So, if you work e.g. 3 x 7.5 days a week that is 0.6 of a whole time equivalent so your leave would be 202.5 hrs x 0.6 = 121.5 hrs. But taking into account your days off, you would only need to take 22.5 hrs to get a full week off.
Bank holidays are usually either added to A/L if the service works bank holidays (so you would be entitled to 8 days x 0.6=4.8 days =36 hours). You will need to check with eroster or HR but presumably your A/L is calculated excluding if your service doesn't operate B/H

Agree with most of that, but even if a service is closed for bank holidays, the BH entitlement should be calculated too. It's important because bank holidays will fall on days part timers would or wouldn't usually work. So for example if you have Mondays off, any BH falling on a Monday won't come out of BH leave entitlement.

Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 18:43

Hankunamatata · 20/10/2022 16:52

This is the calculator I have used. So I know my full annual leave entitlement from that.
The issue I have is that they are only calculating it for a 5 month period (Until end of March) and that’s the figure they’ve put in my contract. Nobody seems to want to tell me my full entitlement and I believe that needs to be in my contract.

jist to clarify, it’s a new job and I’m new to the NHS.

OP posts:
Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 18:45

AcornsUnderfoot · 20/10/2022 16:53

Firstly, if you're part-time in the NHS, leave entitlement should always be worked out in hours not days.

Your leave entitlement may not be in your contact as it varies due to length of previous service, so that isn't unusual. I've previously had to provide proof of length of service before amount of leave was confirmed, so the exact amount isn't in my contract, just the varying entitlements if that makes sense?

I’m new to the NHS so length of service isn’t a factor.
It has been done in hours but only for 5 months. They also worked out my remaining pro rata bank holiday entitlement for this 5 month period (15 hours) but have now removed that too and said that It’s for my manager to decide.

OP posts:
Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 18:46

Realityloom · 20/10/2022 16:54

It's should be clear to see on the roster. What you have used so far and the remaining AL you have left.

I haven’t started yet. I’m concerned my annual leave entitlement isn’t correct in my contract.

OP posts:
Beautifulsunflowers · 20/10/2022 18:48

If you tell us what hours you are contracted to work I’m sure someone can work out your annual entitlement and what you have left.

Yohohaha · 20/10/2022 18:50

How many hours are you doing?

Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 18:54

beeswain · 20/10/2022 17:06

Basic entitlement for under 5 years service is 27 days A/L based on 7.5 hr days, so 202.5 hours.
Standard working week is 37.5 hrs.
So, if you work e.g. 3 x 7.5 days a week that is 0.6 of a whole time equivalent so your leave would be 202.5 hrs x 0.6 = 121.5 hrs. But taking into account your days off, you would only need to take 22.5 hrs to get a full week off.
Bank holidays are usually either added to A/L if the service works bank holidays (so you would be entitled to 8 days x 0.6=4.8 days =36 hours). You will need to check with eroster or HR but presumably your A/L is calculated excluding if your service doesn't operate B/H

I hadn’t actually thought of this regarding bank holidays. They are kind of irrelevant if my service is closed. But l, the way I’d read it is it’s not fair, if for example, the service is closed on bank holiday Mondays, and I work Mondays and therefore get them all off paid, without them coming off my annual leave, and my part time colleague doesn’t work Mondays anyway so doesn’t get these ‘extra’ paid days off if you see what I mean.

so I’ll be working 22.5 hours. So your calculations are correct and match what I’ve done on the online calculator.
121.5 hours plus 36 hours Bank holidays.

What’s in my contact is the entitlement for 5 months as that’s how many months are left in this tax year. So that calculation is
50.63 hours AL plus 15 hours bank holiday.

My contract said:
Annual Leave entitlement: 50.63 hours
Annual Leave remaining: 15 hours.
After a really painful email exchange and phone conversation. It now says
ALE: 50.63 hours
RALE: (blank)

The 50.63 should be in the second box and the top box should say 121.5 surely?

It’s so hard trying to explain this. Also it now doesn’t reflect bank holidays at all. I feel like I’m being so difficult and I haven’t even started.

OP posts:
Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 18:55

Beautifulsunflowers · 20/10/2022 18:48

If you tell us what hours you are contracted to work I’m sure someone can work out your annual entitlement and what you have left.

I know how many I should have. The question I really want to know, is should this be in my contract? Is it right they are only putting 5 months worth of AL in it?

OP posts:
Hankunamatata · 20/10/2022 19:02

My job share works Mondays. She doesn't have enough pro rate bank holidays to cover the bank holiday Mondays we are closed. So she either has to use annual leave, take them unpaid or works extra to make up the hours.

Yohohaha · 20/10/2022 19:03

Your years entitlement will reset in April and you will get the full amount. I wouldn't worry about the contract. It is correct with regards to the 50.63 hours and extra bank holiday hours so you will be able to book that as leave up till April and then have your full entitlement to book after that point

Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 19:05

Hankunamatata · 20/10/2022 19:02

My job share works Mondays. She doesn't have enough pro rate bank holidays to cover the bank holiday Mondays we are closed. So she either has to use annual leave, take them unpaid or works extra to make up the hours.

Yes this is how I assumed it would work. My 121.5 hours would be added together with my 36 hours bank holiday leave. This gives a total of 21 days so I assumed all bank holidays would come out of that but actually I’d prefer to take tbe excess ones unpaid.

But the issue I have isn’t regarding how much I should have, it’s the fact nobody wants to tell me and it’s not in my contract.

OP posts:
Yohohaha · 20/10/2022 19:06

Just as a side note I think there are only 3 bank holidays between now and end of March so 60% of that would be 13.5 hours unless I'm making a mistake so your total leave to take between now and end of March should total around 64.13 which is 8 1/2 days. Sorry if this has already been said

Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 19:07

Yohohaha · 20/10/2022 19:03

Your years entitlement will reset in April and you will get the full amount. I wouldn't worry about the contract. It is correct with regards to the 50.63 hours and extra bank holiday hours so you will be able to book that as leave up till April and then have your full entitlement to book after that point

But surely I should have in writing somewhere what my full entitlement should be? It seems crazy to me that this is not in my contract. Nor is my bank holiday entitlement. All I know is what I’ve calculated myself online and gathered from other sources.

OP posts:
ploed · 20/10/2022 19:08

Part timers do need to use a/l for bank holidays if it is in a day you would normally be working. It doesn't matter if your service is open or not.

My colleagues who usually work Mondays often switch days to avoid using leave if there is Monday bank holiday.

Changeisneeded · 20/10/2022 19:10

I started a new job November last year myeabe entitlement wasn’t in my contract as it just linked to standard entitlement and I have continuous service. My annual leave was exactly the same as yours is and come first April it reset!

so this is totally standard.

Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 19:11

Literally the only info in my contract is
the fact I have 50 hours annual leave left this year. Nothing about bank holidays. Nothing about my full years allowance.

it obviously lists somewhere further down that full time staff get 27 days plus 8 bank holidays and both of these should be pro rata for PT staff. But on tbe first page of my contract where it’s been editors to reflect my personal info it just says
AL entitlement 50 hours

There are 2 boxes, one that says AL entitlement t and one that says remaining AL entitlement. She has put the figure of 50 in the wrong box and left the other blank. But I’m being told this is just how it’s done.

OP posts:
ploed · 20/10/2022 19:12

It won't be in your contract because a/l is standard based on years of service. Less than 5 years service = 27 days plus bank holidays. Pro rata if part time.

Original poster
Freshstarts22 · 20/10/2022 19:12

Changeisneeded · 20/10/2022 19:10

I started a new job November last year myeabe entitlement wasn’t in my contract as it just linked to standard entitlement and I have continuous service. My annual leave was exactly the same as yours is and come first April it reset!

so this is totally standard.

My brain can’t comprehend not having it in writing. I won’t have a leg to stand on if come April it’s not what I expect it to be.

OP posts:
whydoesitalwayshappentome · 20/10/2022 19:13

I have worked for the NHS in two different posts and annual leave amount was not in either contract.

ploed · 20/10/2022 19:13

Google the name of your trust and annual leave calculator. Use the calculator and keep a print out.

Yohohaha · 20/10/2022 19:14

My contract just stated the standard entitlement as well. Id probably feel the same as you if it wasn't documented properly but you will end up with the correct amount despite what it says if you question it after you start if it's not right. If you join a union they will assist if not