Reconsidering private education/labour gov

[Bluevelvetcake2]

As it looks increasingly likely that we will have a Labour government at some point, I’m wondering if anyone who was considering private education for their children is now re-considering it? We have put down a deposit for a prep school we really like which we could comfortably afford at the moment but not with significant fee increases. Just wondering if anyone else has concerns along the same lines and if so what are you thinking…

@Jackiewoo

It tells me they're not deprived.

The money for the vast majority will be found as they want their children in private school

Private schools will have to tighten their belts like state school have had to

this privilege should not be passed on to the most privileged in our society

They care enough to either
a) pay, or
b) put in the significant legwork associated with bursaries and scholarships (and usually then still pay partial fees).

Most children in private schools are at day schools, so the usual parenting still has to be done outside of school hours. I'm sure you can find some child at a boarding school whose supremely wealthy parents have left them there primarily because they can't be bothered to parent, but there's always the exception that proves the rule.

A parent who is indifferent to their child's education will invariably send them to the state school up the road and save the cash.

@autienotnaughty class smass. One of my DC wants to be a rock musician, they'll probably head off in a battered van with a bunch of friends after A levels, balls to university and being saddled with a student loan was a recent comment.

I'm working class actually, because my parents were. So what? My DC might be middle class on paper but who cares, really, its a load of pretentious bollocks ultimately. And I value vocational careers and practical work like electricians, plumbers equally to academically high flying stuff. They're all professionals aren't they?

Its an interesting point though, if we don't aspire for our DC to have careers in anything at all why put them through 15 years of school, the stress of GCSE's, A levels, college?

@SurpriseWombat

Nah

There's enough rich people who are indifferent on both the education and the cost

Its just the done thing. Mix with the right types.

Find the right rich husband

Paying is not an indication of giving a shit. We had huge attendance issues at the private school I worked in. We had a massive lack of support or involvement from a huge chunk of parents who saw their kids’ education as nothing to do with them, because they’d already outsourced it to us.

Poor people care because they are the ones struggling to eat and survive. So it matters to them. Your son may reject middle class life as a young adult because he has the confidence, education and luxury to do so. That is a privilege. You may have grown up working class but I sense you did not go without the basic human rights - food, heat etc. if that's the case you too are coming from a place of privilege which entitles you to reject your status in society.

If a future labour government removed charitable status, won’t this have to apply to universities too, even more so as the latter is not compulsory, unlike education to 18?

As for those saying private is only for toffs, my dd transferred from state secondary as she wasn’t coping. A few others have done the same including some of her friends. These independent schools around here are not incredibly expensive Cheltenham Ladies type. The fees are already crippling.

I know dd is in a privileged place for us to do this. However, I don’t see why we should be penalised further when we are actually saving the government at least 5k a year by sending dd then. It should be thinking along the lines of ‘Wow, 5k saved. How are we going to spend it improving the lives of those still at state and struggling?’

Because in law, education is a charitable aim.

Lots of non-school charities provide education among or as their sole activity.

That's another reason why the possibility of unintended consequences is real - other charities don't want changes that mean that some/all of their activities could no longer be supported with charitable assets/income streams.

OTOH, VAT on school fees doesn't carry those risks, affects all private schools rather than just those with one particular legal status, and will raise more for the Exchequer, and has some support in both Tory and Labour parties.

Don't count on schools becoming academies BTW. Selling off to developers is just as (and depending on site, more) likely.

"If a future labour government removed charitable status, won’t this have to apply to universities too, even more so as the latter is not compulsory, unlike education to 18?"

Yes, no, maybe. That's why we need to see exact proposals.

Same for VAT on nursery and university fees, both of which depend at present on same exemption as schools (crammers don't count as schools for VAT purposes)

@autienotnaughty hahahaha 'you sense it about me' do you? what a load of tripe. I had a single mum who struggled and have had times when I had to choose between heating and eating when I was young. But of course that wouldn't suit your POV. So please don't lecture me about privilege - now that IS a middle class thing to do (careful, your quinoa is showing).

Oh and the musician is a DD, interesting you automatically assumed I was talking about my son.

🖕This. It's disgusting that we tolerate and perpetuate a two-tier education system. The Tories don't give a shiny shit about education for the masses. If more affluent people can't afford private school then there would be more pressure to improve the varied provision in the state system.

Ok thanks. I hope this wouldn’t have implications on nurseries! Parents already pay astronomical fees.

So do the people supporting VAT on private education also support VAT on private healthcare?

It's the same principle, no?

@Foxhassmellysocks

Yes.

Why not?

I support VAT on school fees, private healthcare and second homes. I’d also remove charitable status from most fee paying schools and non nhs-funded independent healthcare.

Parents like you probably shouldn't send their DC to private school. Not to be mean, but if you can't afford the fees comfortably, which it sounds like you wouldn't as there wouldn't be wiggle room for increases in fees, why on earth would you send them to private school?

Private school is such a lazy solution anyway, and bright kids don't need private school to succeed. Only in the UK or US private school is in anyway prestigious, in most of Europe it's looked down on as the assumption is kids there are not very bright and need lots of hand holding and extra help.

@Jackiewoo 😂 quite right I should not have assumed it was boy. And I really hate gender stereotypes 😬

Reason I thought that (although I was fully aware I was assuming) was because the way you talk suggests a lack of knowledge about the reality of being poor. Most poor people never forget even if they go on to have money but it's not always the case.

I would say the friend's father who works in a factory has their wealth in assets and not just from what he earns in his job. You could work all the hours in the week and still not be able to pay for private school fees on top of life without having some wealth in assets.

@autienotnaughty no harm don't fret about it. I can't stand stereotypes either, but DD would probably laugh. And yes, I think you confused what I was saying as being ignorant rather than the sheer bloody minded determination never to be on the bones of my arse again if I can help it. As did another poster, who made me laugh by saying I don't know what deprived is 🙄, its just silly to make a blanket assumption about someone's entire life and experiences from a couple of posts on an anonymous forum.

The factory worker doesn't have "wealth in assets" AFAIK, though other people's financial affairs are private. They could have millions stashed away for all I know and do their job just to keep busy. But from what they've told me I think their wage is used for school fees and their partner covers the household bills or something like that. Dunno really, its none of my business.

Its education so can get heated. Because no matter our political differences or personal experiences, everyone posting here we ALL care about this. Heaven knows what the solution is though.

I know a few people who work in private schools and they say they're struggling. Intake is dropping every year.

Many of my friends went to private school but all use state schools for their children. They all have the sorts of professions you'd associate with private school life but as younger millennials, with more than one child, it's just not realistic.

Personally I wouldn't meet trouble half way. There's no guarantee of an election before 2025 anyway and nothing moves that quickly. If I were considering private school I wouldn't be put off by this.

I can't resist adding that I believe charitable status needs revoking, though I won't be holding my breath for it.

Well they should remove charitable status! I won't lose any sleep over it.

Doubt fees will go up that much even if VAT is added. These schools will just remove bursaries, so private schools will become even more elite.

I do think there needs to be more scrutiny of charitable status. There are lots of private schools near me. There are a few that have really benefited the local community via use of facilities etc. my daughter uses the swimming pool at one and does summer camps at another. I wouldn’t want them to lose charitable status as I think it could have an adverse effect locally.

One of the local preps in contrast has historically done bugger all. I would have been in favour of them losing it. However, suddenly the school seems to have become a bit more community minded. The cynic is me wonders if it is because of the prospect of a change in government but the local state schools are benefiting from the change regardless of the motivation.

im hoping to be able to go private for secondary if we can afford it. If vat is applied then so be it- we’ll have to re-evaluate costs but I don’t think full VAT should apply- think they look perhaps look at a smaller levy on fees.

Check out the Fully Charged series with Robert Llewelyn on YouTube for lots of tips.