Reconsidering private education/labour gov

[Bluevelvetcake2]

As it looks increasingly likely that we will have a Labour government at some point, I’m wondering if anyone who was considering private education for their children is now re-considering it? We have put down a deposit for a prep school we really like which we could comfortably afford at the moment but not with significant fee increases. Just wondering if anyone else has concerns along the same lines and if so what are you thinking…

Amazing how whingey people can be about paying tax on their luxuries isn't it.

Imagine having to pay TAX on the very expensive treat you buy for your children, in order to help them get ahead of other, poorer children. The very cheek of it.

I'm a single mum with a ds at independent. Fees are calculated down to the last penny. If they go up more than expected, I'll just have to raid my pension.

We're into GCSEs now. We're committed. I'd rather sell the house than change schools at this point.

Why are people arguing thar removing charitable status would result in the collapse of private education, forcing the state to accommodate all privately educated children?

That would never happen.

@Jackiewoo

Do your DC have friends from very deprived areas at their 'indy'?

yes they do @Topgub. Bursaries for some very lovely and talented DC. Another of their friends dads works in a factory, no bursary they just work their nuts off to pay the fees. Another works for the NHS (and no, not a surgeon or anything flashy adminy). They value their DC education, don't like the local state schools and find a way to an alternative. Nobody bats an eye. Why do you ask? Do you have a problem with DC from deprived areas?

If you'd read my previous post you'd see that I think the whole bloody system needs overhauling from scratch. Then we might not need indy schools at all. Either way its always a parents responsibility to educate, not the state's, parents just defer the job to them or can choose to do it otherwise.

@GoldenCupidon education isn't a luxury. Paying private school fees is no different to buying a house in the catchment of an outstanding state schools (our best locally has a catchment area of a mile) being in that area adds at least 100k to house prices compared to 2miles away. You don't pay VAT on house prices!

If we got the share of our tax that goes to state schools that we don't use, that would cover the VAT on day fees.

If we allowed more selection in state school admission and allowed parents to pay top ups less would choose private. We want somewhere that reflects our values in life (respect, dignity, moral values), has a good range of extracurricular activities, opportunities to compete in sports against other schools, enrichment activities and a student body of like minded peers. We will get that by either moving house, a faith education or paying private. We don't want to send him to a schools with loads of children from backgrounds that don't have our values. Who wants to work hard to have a successful life and then not give that to their kids.

@Haffiana fair points.

@MarshaBradyo

'Exactly. It’s such lazy petty politics'
I don't consider education politics 'petty' 🤷‍♀️.
It is and always will be an important discussion.

Of course education isn’t petty - this policy is though.

As a good indication look at Blair who stood on the education line as a core tenant to the election v Starmer going for the envy vote to no real benefit.

Blair got it - build it up don’t appeal to the negative side of people who want to tear down..

“We don't want to send him to a schools with loads of children from backgrounds that don't have our values.”

Then you shall raise narrow minded children, surely?

They've been muttering about that since I was at school in the 2000s and nothing ever came of it. I wouldn't make decisions about my child's education based on a possible policy of a party who aren't currently in power.

If they were to remove charitable status, VAT would be added at 20% but I strongly suspect that there would be a long notice period (at least enough to avoid issues with teenagers having to move schools midway through GCSEs or A Levels) and you'd be far from the only one moving.

@Jackiewoo

I asked because you said your dc had friends from all walks of life

I'm afraid I don't believe you

Even if they do stay in a 'deprived area' if they're going to a private school it's unlikely they are actually deprived or living in a chaotic home life

As many Labour supporters and politicians send their kids to private schools that seems unlikely.

I was at an independent day school in the 2000s. It was certainly at the cheap end of private schools, full of peeling paint but plenty of academic rigour.

The local secondary schools were dire at the time (amongst the worst in the country then, much better now) and so there absolutely were kids there from deprived areas, often with parents having made huge sacrifices to send them there. More than a handful of kids from working class areas, quite a few parents in manual jobs, single widowed mothers (no maintenance!), and lots of tatty old hatchbacks dropping kids off. A great many of the kids (possibly the majority, my memory doesn't stretch that far) had come from state primary schools.

I'm not trying to suggest all the kids came from impoverished backgrounds - there were two or three kids in my year who had horses at home - but a great many were making big sacrifices to avoid the dire local state secondaries. A 20% fee rise would probably have tipped the balance for a significant number (but by no means all) of the families there.

Over time the local state secondaries got much better, with a good new one opening down the road. Presented with much more acceptable state options, the parents chose those, pupil numbers dropped off, and eventually the school closed, which was a shame.

@SurpriseWombat

If you can afford private fees regardless of sacrifice you're not deprived despite your address

God, I so hope Labour follow through on this. Imagine if there was actual pressure to reform state education, it would be glorious.

Exactly! Education IS NOT a luxury, its essential and a passport to life. My parents were both state school teachers, they drummed it into me.

@Topgub that's fine, think what you like it makes no difference to me at all or to the DC. I have an old independent school parent friend who is a taxi driver and another is an NHS physio, they'd think you are a bit potty. I also have friends who went to independent schools who'd never dream of sending their DC to one. Great that we're all different and can make different choices for our DC eh.

Prívate education is definitely a luxury.

@Jackiewoo

Maybe you don't understand what deprived is?

In fact, you clearly don't if you're citing nhs physios (band 6 basic) and taxi drivers as deprived

Did I say that there was no element of privilege associated with a private education? Of course not.

But the unsubtle public image of private schools so often features some really rather wealthy parents driving Range Rovers and paying the fees with no real issues.

These things are so full of nuance. A child can have experience of relative deprivation in one aspect of their lives and of relative plenty in others; their postcode vs their school being one example. In some cases they were living between two divorced parents, one well off and one struggling financially. In some cases the home life had many aspects of deprivation but the grandparents were paying the fees.

Two girls in my year alone had babies of their own before we'd left.

About the only area kids at private schools are almost never deprived in, is that the parents universally care about the education of their child.

is that the parents universally care about the education of their child

That is not my experience of private school at all.

Charitable status affects things like business rates on buildings and land (the equivalent of council tax). It also affects how you can carry over a surplus - a business has to spend it all or it will be taxed, a charity can save it for a few years.

VAT is a completely separate issue - charities have to charge VAT on chocolate biscuits just like Tesco does. VAT is not charged on education. That applies whether the provider is a registered charity or a profit-making corporation. Applying VAT to education would open a massive can of worms including university fees, private tutors, swimming lessons, music lessons, adult evening classes etc. Under European law (which we no longer have to stick to) it was illegal to charge VAT on education (those who support this policy but also support re-entry would do well to remember this).

The former is much more likely to happen than the latter.

If they reduce the number of children in private education how will they afford to fund them in the state sector?

Several governments I have worked with are actively looking for ways to grow their private sector to reduce their load.

The same as they do now - with huge class sizes, temporary non-trained staff and poor ALN support.

@SurpriseWombat

Lol.

Loads of kids in PE are there because their parents don't know any different or cause they've been dumped there.

Fuck all to do with them caring about their kids education

@Jackiewoo you realise the careers you are describing are middle class. And just to be clear not everyone has choice but most of the people who do have money.

@Topgub of course I know what deprived is. FFS.

Those friends work in VERY deprived areas, they want better for their own DC and why shouldn't they? my cousin is a social worker in one of the most deprived parts of the north, and guess where she sends her DC to school? I also know plenty of state school teachers who send their DC to independent schools, what does that tell you?

Independent schools aren't perfect. Some DC don't see their parents for a long time, they seem parked for the cachet of it which is sad. Some smoke, they're teenagers so some have sex, they know all the swears and get up to all sorts. But the small class sizes, the expectations of behaviour, the facilities and access to much more stuff to do in school makes a big difference to my DC at least.

Anyway, if you'd actually bothered to read my post about overhauling the state system so there wouldn't need to be independent schools we could discuss that. This is a parenting forum and education is hugely important, change is needed. But you don't believe me and I think you're just being a GF, which changes nothing.