To think fairy tale promote a dangerous narrative.

[Mollymoostoo]

My DD (aged 10) has been reading the book series 'The school for good and evil' qnd this has prompted discussions about how dangerous fairy tales are in perpetuating stereotypes and outdated attitudes. For example....
Prince Charming kissed Snow White whilst she was asleep (consent issues)
Red Riding hood naively trusted a stranger in the woods and had to be rescued by a father figure.
Belle put up with the beasts behaviour even though he was aggressive, falling in love with her captor.
Beauty is seen as good, ugliness evil.

AIBU or is it time to rewite the narrative with balanced perspectives. I am not saying go to the extreme of getting rid of heros, but we need to stop putting pressure on boys to be rescuers and girls to be passive in their own stories.

It would be good if someone wrote a fairy- tale where the SM was kind and loving, instead of the "wicked SM" narrative that is always mentioned.

@TimBoothseyes

Again, this has literally been done several times. There’s The Good Stepmother, Bonus Mom, The Not-So-Wicked Stepmother, Daddy’s Getting Married etc etc. And that’s just picture books for little ones. There’s been nice or normal stepmothers in books for years, some (like those I mentioned above) actively subverting the ‘wicked stepmother’ fairytale trope.

I grew up with these fairy tales, my kids grew up with these fairy tales, now my grandchildren are growing up with them.
We know they are just that....fairy tales. No changes needed.
Everyone knows that frogs don't really turn into princes, people don't really sleep for 100 years and no one can grow their hair long enough to be rescued from a tower.
And they all lived happily ever after.
The end.

I think that the example you actually set as a woman/a couple matters far more than whether or not you critique fairy tales. You can critique them all you like, and read your child all the woke stories you like - but if what they see is "Mummy doing all the housework/child-related stuff" and "Daddy being big and important at work", that's what they will think is normal. By contrast, if they read about Snow White being woken up by a kiss but see their mum and dad sharing childcare, domestic stuff and work outside the home equally, they'll grow up thinking that's the norm.

By the same token, Enid Blyton's stories are a bloody good read, and that arguably matters just as much as worthy politics.

BTW, I'd have shagged the Beast like a shot, but I wouldn't have given that wet prince at the end the time of day.

By the same token, Enid Blyton's stories are a bloody good read, and that arguably matters just as much as worthy politics.

I say this all the time but I was surprised on rereading Malory Towers with dd at what little bullies my favourites Darrell and Alicia were. Hard as my dd really is a bit of a Mary-Lou! She was agog at Miss Peters calling two girls ‘little idiots.’ Still love them though!

Pretty little, fairy tales are dark.

Incredibly dark they are about so much more than marrying a prince they are / were a warnings klaxon that we live in a dangerous world, which we very much do.

And it's often step parent's..( Cinderella step nother, Hansel and Gretel step mother etc ) behind the danger.

I really think it depends on the fairy tales. There's a bigger repertoire out there, including many of the traditional English ones.

I was horrified when I saw Brave and she followed the will o'the wisp. I grew up with stories where the wisps are fairies luring you to your doom, as fairies often do. Actually a useful life lesson, since they spawn over boggy moors where children might be tempted to stray.

Google Bruno Bettelheim

Speaking of Cinderella, that's an interesting one - the step sisters cut off their heels and toes to fit in the shoe, and then get their eyes pecked out for their trouble.

Lots of children love that sort of gore - I did. "The fit cannot be true, there's blood on the shoe!"

I've always been a bit disappointed Disney missed that out.

Most children don’t read Gary stories, they get told them by their parents in a basic format. 3 little pigs - 2 don’t try hard enough, one does and looks after his brother and the wolf who tries to hurt them gets injured. Goldilocks - goes into someone’s house - steals and gets chased out. 3 billy goats gruff someone bullies them and they fight back.
All okay.
the one I had an issue was - original Noddy Enid Blyton at my mums house and I had to edit whilst reading - awful racist stuff. Posted to Manchester Uni with instructions to bin if they didn’t have a copy already (they didn’t).

I understand some children are sensitive, but half the point of fairy tales is that horrible things happen, and even the magic cuts both ways.

It's the same like various sayongs which used to be encouraging but now are the opposite (curiosity killed the cat but.....).
It all ywists into what someone wanted it into

Lots of fairy stories have been retold. Angela Carter has done this, for instance. However, her re-tellings are not suitable for children.

And another one. Here you go: www.abebooks.co.uk/9780241424230/Fairy-Tales-Millennials-Problematic-Stories-0241424232/plp

www.wob.com/en-gb/books/philip-pullman/grimm-tales/9780141442228#GOR005114497

Pretty much the topic of my (now ancient) dissertation. Look at Wuthering Heights, Tess of the Durbervilles and so many others - the wet, drippy men are not attractive.

Maybe that’s because they were written centuries ago and not based on real life. I don’t see many unicorns walking down the high street either!

I'm wondering if you have a degree in English and we studied at the same place?

In The School For Good and Evil we are introduced to a pretty blonde who believes she's a princess and another girl who is framed as a witch. The whole point of the story is that they aren't who you expect them to be and they save themselves.

In Hansel and Gretel, Gretels wit saves them.

In red riding hood originally she saved herself.

In the little mermaid she decides in the end that she would rather earn a human soul than get the guy

In sleeping beauty she is raped while asleep and the child she gives birth to wakes her. She outsmarts the Queen to survive.

Fairytales aren't the issue really

I agree to a certain extent but the tales are also an important part of our traditions and heritage. These stories can and should continue to exist alongside discussion.
I, however, am struggling to tolerate the many many depictions of strong female characters scoffing at men and presenting them as stupid, docile beings. We seem to have gone to completely the other extreme, which is just as dangerous!!

Might be a little old for your daughter at the moment, but I highly recommend the Robin McKinley books. She has retold Beauty and the beast twice (beauty which is more suitable for younger readers and Rose Daughter which is a beautiful and strange retelling) and Sleeping Beauty (Spindle’s end - sleeping beauty does not spend her time asleep in this version). Some of the Disney’s twisted tails are also very good rewritings if their own films but with a twist.

OP I agree with you, read very few traditional fairy stories to our children. And Cinderella only once, I had to add that the prince fell in love with her sense of humour and sparkling personality, not just her beauty. I was shocked to be honest.

A PP has suggested The Bloody Chamber by Angela Carter. Great book, but please read it first before you give to your DD as it’s very adult. I specifically remember a description of female genitalia ‘gleaming like a split fig’.

I know my sister rewrote Sleeping beauty to make it that she was put to sleep because of her organising ability and higher career achievements (I’m not sure what job she gave her) I found it very amusing and was looking forward to what else she would do.

Id never actually finish a s story with my kids, they would sidetrack me and Id drop the book and end up on a tangent. But for people with non illiterate children, looking for folk stories from other cultures to help fight against cultural erasure would be good if you are worried about the implications of stories.
but do not do what I did when my four year old approached me with her friends and asked how come no one in school would believe they were sisters. One was black, one was white and she is arab. She wanted my helped cementing her lie.
I ended up giving four year olds an hour long lecture which included transatlantic slavery. Did not work. The other mother told them God used all colours of sand to make people. That worked better. The third mother cracked it and got the three of them matching bracelets. That was proof enough for the school friends. Surely only real sisters could have matching bracelets.

Next time you talk about Africa, will you talk about colonisation? I’m not being funny but my kids are doing GCSE history and it’s woeful. It is complete and deliberate erasure. They threw in apartheid as a sop but that’s actually worse. Look over there! Don’t talk about the British empire! Didn’t happen!
Which means my poor children have to listen to me again. As soon as they find a circus they are running away.