To think secondary school rules are harsh and missing the point

[craxyrulebraker]

DS has just started secondary I just think it is all too much and the focus is all wrong.

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc
Not allowed to drink water in lessons
Cautions for forgotten kit
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in

Meanwhile very little nurture or pastrol care; poor communication so children don't know what is always expected of them, but scared they will get a detention; hardly any SEN support; very little staff presence at break/lunch times or in corridors; problems with bullying. Schools can't do these basics but tell the kids off for wearing the 'wrong' grey trousers!!

[OldWivesTale]

Yanbu and I'm a teacher - or I was- I don't want to go back and a big part of that is down to all the petty rules, especially around uniform.

[MarshaMelrose]

Why does she need to drink water during the class? She's not going to get dehydrated for 40 mins. Of course you get warned for forgetting your pe kit. And detentions if it's repeated. We didn't get detentions for undone homework straightaway but if it was a repeated problem we would.

Obviously bullying isn't acceptable but there are rules in secondary school or it would be chaos.

[Canthinkofaname79]

Yes absolutely. I have a child in year 10 and one in year 7. It's all wrong and much stricter than when I was at school. Why they insist on dressing all the children like boss bsby is beyond me.

[TokyoSushi]

DS also in Yr7 and fairly similar, fortunately he seems to be ok. However I'd say a bit of kindness and nurture is definitely missing. Also overly harsh uniform sanctions for example somebody was in isolation for their hair being too short. Honestly, what difference does it make? Kids still seem to look scruffy regardless!

[onemouseplace]

They seem to hand out detentions for such minor things that they are really meaningless.

[dreamingbohemian]

I agree

My DS got a detention once when he didn't notice his shirt was untucked, it's ridiculous

[Paperdove87]

Surely you should have checked what the rules were like before you chose the secondary school? You have presumably chosen the school so he needs to adhere to the rules. The behaviour policy especially in terms of uniform is generally on the school website.

Also I find that sometimes schools are stricter about the little things as then those are the boundaries teens are pushing rather than not bothering with the little things so then they rebel against more serious rules. But I do agree with you that not being allowed water to drink in class is not fair.

[miceonabranch]

It's to give the illusion of discipline and orderliness. All bollocks of course. Scratch the surface and chaos lies underneath.

[craxyrulebraker]

@OldWivesTale interesting to hear your take on it. I'm not surprised - it must be such a waste of time and effort policing uniform, having to give permission for people to take a blazer off etc!

[CandyLeBonBon]

Your child has been in secondary school for 5/6 weeks. Unless there are additional needs, there's no reason your kid can't wear the right uniform or bring the right kit, with your support, is there? In year 7 you support them to manage this stuff and by year 9 they've usually got the hang of it.

[Canthinkofaname79]

And who cares if they do look scruffy? Why is so much value placed on appearance? I couldn't find my sons pe top earlier cos you know, life happens and stuff goes missing, I'm the one who washed it so my fault not his. Yet if he wore a different top he would get a detention? Absolutely ridiculous.

[Toddlerteaplease]

That was what my school was like in the 90's. It wasn't an issue at all.

[Hercisback]

Homework you give to the class teacher.
Forgotten kit deserves warning.
They don't need to drink every lesson.

You might think the rules are rubbish but they are the rules of the organisation. Therefore you follow them or face the consequences.

[DelurkingAJ]

@Paperdove87

Surely you should have checked what the rules were like before you chose the secondary school? You have presumably chosen the school so he needs to adhere to the rules. The behaviour policy especially in terms of uniform is generally on the school website.

Also I find that sometimes schools are stricter about the little things as then those are the boundaries teens are pushing rather than not bothering with the little things so then they rebel against more serious rules. But I do agree with you that not being allowed water to drink in class is not fair.

Plenty of places in this country where there’s no choice…one school where your DC will get a space and that’s it.

[bellac11]

@Paperdove87

Surely you should have checked what the rules were like before you chose the secondary school? You have presumably chosen the school so he needs to adhere to the rules. The behaviour policy especially in terms of uniform is generally on the school website.

Also I find that sometimes schools are stricter about the little things as then those are the boundaries teens are pushing rather than not bothering with the little things so then they rebel against more serious rules. But I do agree with you that not being allowed water to drink in class is not fair.

What sort of area do you live in where you have a choice about what school your child goes to?

[2DemisSVP]

Yanbu. I’ve been amazed how stressful my bright resilient year 7 is finding it. So if they’re finding it tough , dread to think what others going through. Few things I’d change - no homework for first half term. No behaviour points for forgetting equipment , needs to be a different sanction. More time spent focusing on creating bonds and friendships between year 7 students in lessons for first half term. Getting the nice older students to act as buddies / role models. Less time banging on about standards and expectations. Terrified them all - in the first week it was all they heard about ….

[Hankunamatata]

You have to ask to take your blazer or jumper off - never got this rule
warning about the 'wrong' type of PE shorts, etc - basic uniform rule, parent should make sure they have correct uniform
Not allowed to drink water in lessons - kids play around with waterbottles and end up a distraction
Cautions for forgotten kit - basic manner to bring correct items needed for lessons
Detentions for homework not complete - even when its not clear who/how to hand it in - pretty basic school rule

[Calandor]

@MarshaMelrose

Why does she need to drink water during the class? She's not going to get dehydrated for 40 mins. Of course you get warned for forgetting your pe kit. And detentions if it's repeated. We didn't get detentions for undone homework straightaway but if it was a repeated problem we would.

Obviously bullying isn't acceptable but there are rules in secondary school or it would be chaos.

Adults don't have to abstain from water at work it's bonkers. And from memory it's not 40 minutes. It's two hours back to back, break, another hour or so, lunch then another few hours.

Why would you ban kids from having some water? It's bizarre

[Canthinkofaname79]

@2DemisSVP

Yanbu. I’ve been amazed how stressful my bright resilient year 7 is finding it. So if they’re finding it tough , dread to think what others going through. Few things I’d change - no homework for first half term. No behaviour points for forgetting equipment , needs to be a different sanction. More time spent focusing on creating bonds and friendships between year 7 students in lessons for first half term. Getting the nice older students to act as buddies / role models. Less time banging on about standards and expectations. Terrified them all - in the first week it was all they heard about ….

I agree with everything you've said. My child has had so much homework.

[MarshaMelrose]

The problem is year 7s have gone from being big fish in little ponds and now they're little fish in big ponds. It's a shock to the system but it's all about teaching them organisation and self-reliance.

[luxxlisbon]

Some of these aren’t really unusually strict and some aren’t strict at all.
How on earth is it not clear who to hand homework into or how? A secondary school child should be old enough to clarify what there homework is, when it’s due and how it’s handed in. A detention for not doing homeowner because they ‘didn’t know who to hand it in to’ sounds like such a lazy excuse.

Some school uniform rooms are strict, at my school we had to have our blazer on at all times when not in school and that was the 90s. Ultimately they are the rules though, if you aren’t prepared to guide your child and stick to them then don’t send them to that school at the end of the day.

[craxyrulebraker]

I think it also feels pretty hypocritical that they expect so much from the kids when they aren't fulfilling what they should be doing re support/keeping order etc.

Also stuff like the kit/uniform. My DS lost his tie because a load of kids pushed past him in the corridor and it was knocked off at some point and got lost. Luckily I can afford to have bought a spare one for the next day - if not he would have got a detention.

[Hercisback]

@Calandor Because some kids are twattish enough to knock each others bottles over. Some kids are twattish enough to have water fights. Some kids accidentally spill water everywhere. Some kids tap/flip the bottles. Some kids get distracted by the bottles. Some kids use 'I'm having a drink' as an excuse to do no work.

Better for everyone to not have bottles out during lessons. I turn a blind eye if students drink right at the start or right at the end of a lesson. There's no reason they need more than one drink an hour.

[arethereanyleftatall]

I would agree with them that homework needs to be completed and an 11 year old should be capable of bringing their pe kit in.

I actually think this works both ways. There were so many children, mostly boys, who were completely mollycoddled in both ny dds classes at primary. Their mums doing everything for them. The school told us over and over that y6 was all about getting the kids ready. Some parents just didn't listen, continued to pack their pfbs lunch boxes and remind them about everything; so why it comes as a shock to them when secondary don't, is anyones guess.

[MarshaMelrose]

Adults don't have to abstain from water at work it's bonkers. And from memory it's not 40 minutes. It's two hours back to back, break, another hour or so, lunch then another few hours.
Why would you ban kids from having some water? It's bizarre

Classes last about 40 mins. Then they break to go to another class or for the teacher to come to them. They can drink then.
Kids aren't adults. They are often careless and spill things. Sometimes deliberately. Teachers can't put bans on individuals so it's a class ban. They're not going to be harmed by not drinking for a couple of hours. I don't know where this obsession with sipping water all day has come from.