To think there should be more help for middle class families

[RootinandTootin]

This isn't a hate mongering post, those on lower incomes and can't work should be helped. My issue is that there seems to be little to no support at all for middle class families. Myself and partner work 5 days a week and have 2 kids. Not a terrible wage so I can't complain about that but the energy cost, food bills and fuel are going to cripple us soon enough. We also have Christmas to think about and a couple of birthdays inbetween. I just feel so unbelievably stressed out all the time about it. I'm praying this all calms down by the end of next year when our mortgage is coming up to renewal. There is pretty much no help being offered to us (unless anyone has some hints). I can't see it getting any better and its pretty depressing, alongside other personal issues going on at the moment I just want to cry.

From a philosophical viewpoint, why do we as a species think we need more than that?

Magpies collect pretty objects, and bower birds decorate their nests, but the default model of existence for the past few eons has been that living creatures need to find food, make shelter for their babies and try not to get eaten by something bigger.

I do wonder whether humans generally make things worse for themselves by expecting more.

We can't afford to cut taxes. Public services have been cut to the bone for a decade and being told to brace for more.

We need a wealth tax, it's not sustainable with the ageing population.

Make child benefit a universal benefit again for a start.

Furthermore, it is in all of our wider interest for people to have enough surplus money, so they are able to spend it in the retail and service industries, otherwise businesses struggle and jobs are lost

You want us to agree that middle earners should be given government help so that you can afford to keep socialising so us low earners still have a job to go to? Is that what you’re saying?

But we all want the life we had before...

I've only just managed to get some savings for the first time in my life - I am beyond gutted that in reality, my savings intended for improving my kitchen (currently falling apart, not disabled accessible, circa 1980s) are going to be spent on just surviving.

And once those are gone, I will be in debt.

This is what a cost of living crisis is - you won't be able to save, life will be pretty shit, you will end up in debt.

Why would it be different for middle income earners vs low income earners - you may earn more, but you have bigger mortgages, more expensive cars, are used to spendy holidays (or indeed, actually going on holidays!)...

If you were living within your means before, then you probably won't lose your home, but you will have to tighten things up and it won't be fun.

If you were living beyond your means before - well yeah you're pretty fucked now, as will many be.

I'm also quite fed up of pensioners continually being helped over other groups. I'm sure some do live in poverty..but plenty are very well off and a lot better off than a lot of families

and surely some of them have ended up in situations because they didn't "live within their means" or save but I assume once you cross a certain age it's acceptable?

Sounds like you're generally miserable. Is your job not fulfilling you? It's a third of your life and it should be highly enjoyable and rewarding.

Everyone has to tighten their belts and go without luxuries.

lol, you think everyone is?

It sounds like you're a middle income family and may have stretched yourself beyond your means. I don't believe the taxpayer should be expected to fund aspirational lifestyles (regardless of whether that applies to you or not)

I agree OP. it frustrates me no end that there is very little support for nursery fees for example because "we earn too much". Well no the fees put a huge dent in our income but what's the alternative?stop working and drop an entire wage🤷🏻‍♀️Don't understand why people get free funded under three places when parents are unemployed.

There is help for everyone though with energy prices - we all get the £400 and all get the unit cap (until April now rather than 2 years but still…).
Given this, I don’t expect really to spend much more on energy as I did last year because our use is pretty low and I have a bit of a buffer.

I think the money is targeted wrongly.

I’m in Scotland and there tends to be a notion that just giving people money is better than actually be invested in services to help bring them out of poverty.

i absolutely agree there should be a safety net for people and as a child of poverty i benefitted from it. But up here those on benefits have been handed so much over the last few months - hundreds for school uniform, cost of living money increase, electricity payment, bridging payment, extra 20 child payment every week for each child, 200 for each child at Christmas.

What about people without children? Or those on the cusp of just surging whilst working - it’s only ever targeted at those on benefits. It just seems misplaced.

Much like universal baby boxes - I’m sure the money would be better invested in the NHS than giving someone on £100k a few cheap baby grows and a thermometer.

I get what you mean, OP. It feels like you have to work more and get a lot less just lately. I'm fortunate not to be in the worst-off group, but if the middle earners DO get squeezed too tight, spending will inevitably decrease on "luxuries" like eating out, leisure activity, holidays, non-essential retail, which is obviously no good for the large numbers of lower-income workers in those sectors. So no winners atm and I don't know what the answer is. I'm in favour of minimal state intervention except for the genuine cases. I don't want to see mass govt handouts.

It's so that children where the parents would not be able to afford a place still get to experience nursery.

So when mine was 3 both myself and husband were working part-time (we have both since upped our hours and income a lot since then) and would not have been able to afford a nursery place, but she got to go anyway because of the funded hours, this benefited her.

Now she's at school I would not want to pay so much for childcare so I work part-time again from home and take care of the house while he works 70 hours a week doing two jobs but we never have to pay for childcare.

I've never paid for childcare, it seems extortionate. I wouldn't want to work for practically nothing with my wage going on childcare all for the privilege of not seeing my own child. We aren't rich, we're a 51K/year family but we don't both try to work full-time as that brings its own costs and the salary benefit is minimal or even cancelled out.

Being a homeowner dosn’t excempt you from poverty.

The poster I quoted was the person who said taxes were too high, implying that they needed cutting. I agree that company taxes, and non dom tax breaks need urgent reform . I would also like there to be a heavy tax on people who buy investment property , particularly residential property, which they then leave empty.

Lots of posters are ignoring the years of wage stagnation but tax bands staying the same & living costs increasing

Er, yeah it does. You’re sitting on a pile of cash. Literally. And until that pile of cash is gone, you can’t plead poverty- absolute or relative.

The £400 towards power bills is for everyone regardless of income

Yeah, except my landlord buys the electricity for the entire block of flats as a business. The landlord won't get the £400 so won't be able to change each flat's submetre rate.

In fact many buildings have sub metres for each flat, while the landlord has one actual metre with the company for the whole building. You could have a block of 30 flats and the landlord pays 1 bill for them all, while the tenants top up their landlord submetres. In that situation, the landlord would get only 1 £400 to use between 30 flats.

Some of the poorest people won't get any energy help

Not literally at all is it.

This is why I never wanted a mortgage, all your wealth tied to the place you live, always seemed precarious.

What happens if you own your home outright but can't afford energy bills, they stack to say 5 grand, what happens? I really don't know, it sounds dangerous though. No one can take my home as long as I pay the £400/month rent which I can manage no problem. It doesn't matter how much debt I get into either they can never take my home because of it.

What's the etymology of "mortgage"?

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Op has been clear on what she means. Berating her for living above her means is ridiculous. She earns a good wage, her means should provide a nice life. What are you struggling to understand about that?

Fwiw we live below our means, but our bills have gone up £400 in the last two weeks alone, that's a decent amount of savings a month, isn't it? Would be classed as living to our means, I'd say, and poof, gone, just like that. If anyone dare berated me for not being sensible enough I think I'd scream.

No, but it’s because they hand out bundles of free money to those on lower income that the ‘middle class’ are, in practise, deceptively worse off. If you start digging into this and do your own research (I used entitled to calculator) it’s actually really surprising how similar of a financial situation two families on wildly different incomes can end up receiving at the end of the month. It’s not black and white even though mums net loves to make it out that way, it seems the moment someone earns over £25k and complains about it people wield their pitchforks and form and angry mob 😂

Im not anti poor, or anti benefits, quite the opposite actually but I am a realist and it annoys me that when people on low income/UC complain about their income they never ever include their UC in their income. If you’re earning £10k a year but UC is topping you up by £750 a month then once adjusted for tax/ni your income is actually equivalent to a £22k a year salary! You can’t just leave out the UC because you want more sympathy.

We don’t currently get any sort of top up, not even child benefit. I ran an entitled to calculation the other day to see how I’d do without hubby around and I almost fell off my chair at the amount of UC I would get ‘topped up’ each month. There really wasn’t a huge amount in it. Which is awful really as no matter how pro benefits or left wing you are I think we can all agree that when a family earning 50k+ are on a similar budget to a single parent working PT for £13k a year (my situation) then the systems broken, there should be a significant difference between those lifestyles, otherwise what are people studying years for or working 40+ hours a week for? Might as well all go PT and live on UC.

I totally see the point you’re trying to make OP. The low income end get bolstered so much in terms of support that is does essentially lower the value/comparative difference and devalue the ‘middle class’ family income.

It's ridiculous when many ft working parents can't afford a place either. It is the biggest reason we only have one child.

@Discovereads so do you think pensioners who own their own homes can't be in poverty?

Hmmm. I know someone who owns outright, but they have hardly any income atm and skipping meals, can't afford to repair anything, have accrued debt from unpaid bills. I've had to lend money for food etc. I guess they could sell their house, but the money they have would be needed to rent somewhere else as their wage wouldn't cover the rent.

I have more money than them actually in my bank able to use, and I rent and get some Universal Credit.