To have pulled DH up on this?

[AnimalFarm1983]

We dont argue very often so when we do it tends to be a big deal. The last two big ones we've had have been over the same thing...how he speaks to the children (10 and 11 to boys)

He was essentially abused by his Dad who is now dead. I can hear his Dad talking when he barks at the kids and I suppose I dont want them thinking about him the way he did about his dad.

He tends to bark orders or shout things out when its unnecessary and I feel he could be gentler. He says I do the same but I dont feel i do. This is corroborated by the children who even say themselves he speaks harshly and 'you could say it nicely'

We had a bust up about this on holiday over him making DS1 cry by calling him an idiot.

Now yesterday when DS2 asked if he had time to bounce on the trampoline before we went out. DHs response was to shout 'NO!!! WERE ABOUT TO GO OUT!'

I picked him up on this and he got annoyed saying I do it too...I got cross and said I obviously wasn't allowed to bring this up, ever.

He them wouldnt speak to me or the kids for the rest of the day. I tried talking to him in the car on the way out but got monosyllabic answers so gave up. He acted like a sulky teenager on our trip out lagging behind us so I eventually just pretended he wasnt there and tried to have a nice day with the children.

He slept all the way home then went to bed when he got back. I cooked him dinner which he did not eat.

I feel I tried to get past the argument by talking to him as normal afterwards but he wouldn't. So we are not really on speaking terms. I ignored him last night as he did me.He is never the one to apologise or talk first, its always me and I dont feel I've done anything wrong. Have I? AIBU?

Op, I would go by the model of asking yourself am I happy? do I feel loved and valued? do I feel safe expressing my views in our marriage? would I feel happy to leave our children with my husband if I went away for a few days without being concerned that he would lose his temper? If you can't answer yes to all of these basic questions then I would seriously consider ending your marriage op. I had to make the same decision 12 years ago and it wasn't easy but it was the right thing to do. I felt free of worry and treading on eggshells and my dc were so much happier.

OP,

I mean this kindly but you are putting him, then your passive self, ahead of your children who are being abused.

I get that it is easier to just shut up, apologise and move on, but your children are being abused by their father and you are allowing it to continue.

It is only a matter of time before one of them says something about their father and their home life.
If they say it to a mandated person like a teacher, they will be helped.

I don't think you want that for your children?

Do you want them blaming you as adults, that you stood by while they were bullied and abused because it was easier for you to say nothing?

He may have been a nice man but he certainly isn't now.

He is a real bully and he is responsible for destroying their childhood.

You will be responsible too for putting the quiet life ahead of doing the right thing.

Pack a bag and adk him to leave.
Tell him that you will report him to the police if he doesn't leave.

Stand up for your children.
They have no one else.

nailed it

Ok.bit of an update.
Firstly, they are not being abused and nor am I. They are happy bright and well rounded kids. He does not abuse me or speak to me badly. He is a little over the top when disciplining them is all I meant to say.
I approached him this evening and asked him if he felt he owed me an apology for yesterday. He was stunned and said I'd hurt him deeply. He said I said it out of the blue from nowhere and he was justified in telling DS2 off as he has told him multiple times before. He said I basically told him he was a shit father and used his own son against him to demonstrate his behaviour (DS had said he disnt need to say it so harshly and I sort of said, see even he says it).

So i said why have you ignored them for the best part of 2 days then and left me to deal with everything. His excuse was he is hurting hard. He then said I won't ever accept anything I'm told either. So....stalemate nothing has changed. Hes blown the situation totally out of control, all I said was for him to try not to speak so harshly to DSs. I tried to tell him that was not what I meant at all but he doesnt believe me.

Just have no idea what to do now. All I know is I'm bloody miserable.

Firstly, they are not being abused and nor am I. They are happy bright and well rounded kids. He does not abuse me or speak to me badly. He is a little over the top when disciplining them is all I meant to say.

Good men don’t ignore their wife and children for 2 days.

Your children are growing up in a home where their dad shouts at them and ignores them and their mum for days. That is a very toxic environment.

He really knows how to manipulate you doesn't he?

Checks out of family life because he's hurting... honestly is he a wet lettuce?
Do you get to have a break from everything I'd you are hurting?
No, it's all bollocks. Leave leave leave

Calling a child an idiot is emotionally abusive
shouting at children constantly is abusive
giving you hm the silent treatment is abusive

he is abusive
you are minimising

Calling your kid an idiot and screaming at them both IS abuse
don’t make excuses for him

ignoring you, guilt tripping and making you second guess yourself when HE was the one in the wrong is also abuse

trading your own problems and pain as an reason to be let off treating tori family like shit is abuse

wake up and stop apologising for him

He is abusing you…you just don’t know that it’s abuse. You don’t have to take my word for it, there’s plenty of research you can do to find out more. What you are describing is emotional abuse. Not even the initial incident with him shouting but everything that has followed; the sulking, the self pity, deflecting the blame back to you. Well balanced mature people don’t refuse to speak to their kids for two days over something like this. Self-absorbed controllers do.

“He was stunned and said I'd hurt him deeply. He said I said it out of the blue from nowhere and he was justified in telling DS2 off as he has told him multiple times before. He said I basically told him he was a shit father and used his own son against him to demonstrate his behaviour (DS had said he disnt need to say it so harshly and I sort of said, see even he says it).”

You ‘hurt him deeply’ by asking him to can his aggression. He goes on to justify it.
You didn’t tell him he was a shit father, he’s putting words in your mouth and holding them against you. This is manipulative. You didn’t use your son against him either. Your son spoke up of his own accord. Not your fault, yet to hear your dh tell it, he was roundly attacked. Again, this is manipulative. It puts the blame squarely at your feet, while he plays the victim.

All in all, you end up apologising for his shit. And so it miserably goes on.
It is abuse. Sorry.

Firstly, they are not being abused and nor am I.

You are in complete denial. He is an abusive, emotionally violent bully, and your poor sons will grow up to be just like him if they are raised in this environment. Men like your husband crush their wives and children's spirits. You are absolutely being abused and so are your children.

Put it this way…if there’s a repeat performance from him in a week’s time, how likely are you to confront him about it? After all this drama and upset?
Quite. He continues being an angry bastard while you shrink back that little bit more afraid of ‘hurting him deeply’ or whatever shit it was he said.

Op, do you not know what gaslighting is? Your husband is an absolute master of it.

It is OK to admit that he is being verbally or emotionally abusive. You describe someone who is shouting and then sulking and reating you to the silent treatment because you dared to complain. You then say 'but he is not abusing us' and then later say how miserable you are. It reads like you don't want people telling you to leave.

Have a read of this OP. archive.org/details/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/page/n217/mode/2up

Deliberately ignoring your children for days over something petty IS abuse.

Your husband has grown up to be like his father. Would you be proud of your DSes if they wind up like your husband?

Silent treatment is a classic abuse tactic. He sounds like a chip off the old block.

Misogynist men do get ‘hurt deeply’ when a woman calls them out on their behaviour. They can’t take it - they’re so used to being dominant they’re in denial about how toxic they are.

If you won’t leave, just be pissed off and call him out every single time…
”why are you raising your voice? He only asked a question.”
”yes you’ve told him a hundred times but he’s a kid - calm down.”
”why are you shouting? No one else is shouting.”
“Just calm down… they’re your children - you don’t need to be so angry with them.”
”These kids won’t want to know you when they’re older - you’re never fun or kind with them…”
”We did not deserve what you just did/said.”
etc etc

Just keep holding a mirror up.

He needs therapy. He has zero self awareness and that thing where he switches everything around and claims you do it too sounds like classic borderline personality traits. Your children witness this moody behaviour and it does affect them so pretending it doesn't won't be helpful for them. Are you happy with him? I think you should leave him to be honest.

Your husband is an abusive bully.

Your children are being abused.

You are minimising and in denial.

He is all about his pain and hurt, while he bullies and ignores his children.

What a miserable home your children have.

They know well the man your husband is.

My hope is that as they grow up, they find the courage to speak to someone about his behaviour as you clearly feel unable to protect them.

As they enter the teenage years this will only get a lot worse and he is highly likely to get physical.

Poor kids.
I have friends that are teachers, and they are often told about homes like yours.

They will at least report the abuse.

You leave. You are miserable. He is abusive. And ive no idea why a child even needed disciplining at all for asking if he could go on the trampoline!

The trouble is he has a lot of health conditions and is in pain most of the time.

This I can see as an 'excuse'. I'm there myself currently. It's hard if you are in constant pain. BUT that is his responsibility. HE needs to seek control of this and be aware of its impacts. He either needs to seek a meds review or other pain support - not take it out on you or the kids. That's just immature and yes abusive.

It sounds like your husband is starting to repeat parts of the trauma he experienced as a child. I'd sit down with him calmly at a time when the kids aren't around and when you're on good terms and just gently explain that it's something you've noticed and that you think he may need to get some support to step back and recognise when he's repeating those behaviours. I'd reinforce that you love him and want to support him and think he's a good father but that he is risking the kids confidence unless he gets this bit under control and you want to help him do that. Then it's up to him to go for counselling or speak to the gp re:pain management so he gets support to make those changes. I think the important thing is to chose your timing so he doesn't feel attacked and get defensive.

Ah op you are defending his behaviour. I've been there, trying to minimise what they say or do to convince yourself more than anyone that it's ok to keep tolerating it. Only you can decide what to do in the future. But the advice you've been given on here, overall is sound advice.

Sulking is a basic form of control. He knows it will make you feel like shit and uncomfortable so the outcome =you apologise, which is almost where you’re at, purely to ease the discomfort and awkwardness. Got you well trained, hasn’t he?

How do you define abuse OP?

Abuse does not necessarily mean violence, or someone shouting angrily at the top of their voice.

Abuse is about control.