Was I rude/wrong in this situation?

[clankist]

Was out walking my two seven month chihuahuas today. I have treated them like dogs from day one and they are very well trained. They walk off lead absolutely fine and don't bother other dogs at all, however if a dog comes running over to them they will bolt.

Today I was walking them off lead and there were two big golden retriever with two women who were chatting. We were quite a distance away but one of the retrievers started barking and running towards me/my dogs. I put my hand out in a 'stop' motion as it got closer. I said, 'stop' and when that didn't work I said 'no'. That didn't work either and my dogs started to run away.

I moved away from the dogs and began to call for my dogs but the retriever kept following me so my dogs were standing watching at a distance but wouldn't come over due to the dog being next to me. I shouted across to the woman, 'can you please get your dog?' No reply and she continued talking.

I moved away again, calling my dogs and the dog followed me again. I looked at the lady and shouted, 'can you get your dog?' She didn't move.

I moved away again and the dog followed once again, at this point I was exasperated and said a little sternly, 'will You move your dog!?'

She came over and said, 'my dog isn't anywhere near your dogs' rudely.

I said, 'yeah because they ran away terrified due to your dog coming up to them. If your dog is off lead it shouldn't be running up to my dogs'

She went to say something but I just held up my hand and said, 'thank you'.

I then continued my walk with my dogs and the lady met another dog walker who then started pointing to me and shaking their head.

Did I do the right thing to deal with this situation or was I too sensitive? I just think you shouldn't have your dog off the lead unless you know they will not approach any other dogs without permission.

I am surprised at how many people think yabu.

Had you reacted like that immediately then maybe but you made it absolutely clear that she needed to get her dogs under control several times and she either ignored that or was paying so little attention she didn't notice.

She had no right to kick off at you because she didn't act when she should have.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam i honestly thought this was dog etiquette, ie mine are off the lead for at least half their walk but if I see any dog on a lead, mine both go on the lead as I assume they have some kind of issue with other dogs. Surely if a dog doesn’t particularly like meeting other dogs you put it on a lead and hope anyone approaching you does the same? I live by the sea and see about 10+ dogs every walk I go on, if they are off the lead they play together, if they are on a lead, I put mine on. Isn’t this what all dog owners do?? I’ve had dogs for 20 years now! Genuine question, btw, not trying to be rude.

You're putting all your trust in a stranger there aren't you? you let your dog go up to someone else's dog with no idea how they're going to react.

I have a collie. He doesn't play with other dogs. He just comes back to me and avoids them looking at me until they piss off again and we can carry on playing ball.

On the beach he likes to walk in the sea. He activity avoids contact with other dogs. He isn't aggressive, he just does 'get' playing.

YABU, but in case the consistent feedback from others isn't sinking in, let's say it again:

You don't know what the other person would have done if you'd signalled your dogs have absolutely zero recall when faced with other dogs might bolt.

If your dog is off the lead it's reasonable for others to assume they are OK to play. If they run off but aren't giving off any visible or audible fear signals, there is nothing behavioural for the other dog to respond to. Did you even try just carrying on with your walk and showing your dogs there's nothing to be afraid of? If you stand there and shout no wonder they won't come back. You're telling them there's something to worry about.

Also - the fact that you need to spell out that you treat your dogs like dogs at the beginning suggests to me that you don't.

Yes. This is exactly how all reasonable dog owners approach a walk. Dog on lead = put yours on too. Not that hard.

I do that. But I would never let him approach an off lead dog without checking it was ok with the owner. Not that he would want to anyway

@AllThingsServeTheBeam I guess I am but honestly i would assume any dog off lead has no aggression. Ie it’s totally ok for another dog to get pissed off and have a snap at mine, mine would run straight back, I would apologise for mine pissing them
off even but a proper full on fight/danger, that dog wouldn’t be off the lead would they?? Well quite honestly they shouldn’t be off the lead should they?

No they shouldn't. But there a lot of dick head owners about. There shouldn't be dog shit on the floor because owners should pick it up. Yet there is.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam don't know them until the dogs start playing, happens both ways with my dog approaching or their dog approaching.

I'd prefer not to take the risk.

@AllThingsServeTheBeam your choice, but it's how it works at our park, 16 years an owner, no issues yet.

This was madness to read through 😂

I don’t think OP liked being told that yes, she was rude

Absolutely not rude at all. This kind of behaviour infuriates me so much. How stupid do you have to be to realise how incredibly intimidating a Labrador would be to a chihuahua? I have this happen to my small (on lead) dogs all the time. Then the cheeky owners start commenting on how aggressive little dogs are. I’d be scared if someone 6 times my height and weight ran towards me with unknown intent

Sorry but it's absolute bullshit that a dog owner should have to keep their dogs on a lead to stop other dogs from approaching uninvited. Train your dogs better so they don't approach other dogs or people unless they receive a signal to do so.

I wouldn't particularly welcome another person approaching me and getting all up in my face so lord knows why dogs ads expected to.

Thank you!

Great for you. What a very odd park

Unlike many here I think she was in the wrong because you called to her several times to call or fetch her dog which she didn't do. You might have been infirm on your feet or just nervous, in which case she should have been watching what her dog was doing and been close enough to quickly intervene or call it back and close enough for you to be able to let her know if there was any issue.

I do think it's a bit unreasonable to expect all dogs to act with complete disinterest to other dogs though. As long as they are friendly. I've seen ridiculous things where people have shouted about dogs being out of control when a perfectly friendly dog meets another friendly dog for example and the other dog was fine about it. But equally there's people who let their dogs approach others a very far distance from them, so it's not possible for the other person to signal if they are uncomfortable and are not in a position to do much if the meeting doesn't go as expected. I also think people should be more aware when they have more than one dog because it can be intimidating when more than one bowls over. I have done the "Stop!" and "Back!" with the strong stance and the outstretched stop hand before to three dogs bowling up to mine. It was instinct in my case, i'm not sure if it was a good idea or not, but in my case it stopped them in their tracks and I was quite surprised it worked. The woman (rather hilariously) called across "quite right too!". In that case my dog and I were minding our own business and his leg was just on the mend after an injury so I was damned if three big dogs were going to come and bounce all over us and set it back again!

So I think she's the one in the wrong, but that doesn't mean that there should be some blanket expectation that all dogs should be kept on a lead if there is a chance they might say hello to another. I'm always surprised how so many dogs seem to feel almost compelled to meet each other, even when nervous. So I think that is quite a natural instinct for most of them (as long as friendly/polite etc) . I think to train all sociability out of a dog is a bit unnatural.

I'm "lucky" in that my dog is not that into saying hello and rarely bothers other dogs. But that's down to breed not training. But dogs should be recallable and close enough that the other owner can be spoken to and promptly call them away if there is any problem. But puppies and young dogs and dogs in training are not necessarily totally reliable so that's always worth bearing in mind too.

Her dog wasn’t out of control, he was just off lead, like OPs dogs were. OP seems to think everybody else should have their dogs on lead whilst her two chihuahuas that she hasn’t bothered to socialise a should be free to go off lead. It is OP that needs to socialise her dogs and keep them on a lead until she has done so.

Sounds like none of the dogs were under control and should all be on extendable leads. Drives me mad when dogs bound over to my toddler and she starts crying then the owner says” don’t worry dog is friendly”. Should not be approaching people if they are well trained.

@Aprilx this is nonsense. There are many situations where a larger dog might intimidate a smaller dog or just be a nuisance by following other people. The woman with the larger dogs was not paying any attention. Any dog interaction can go wrong for a variety of reasons. Some small dogs might not want to play. Some old dogs might not want to. Some playful dogs don't take no for an answer and some can hover around and be a nuisance to the owner. I don't see why all dogs who are elderly for example have to be kept on a lead all the time so that all owners who can be arsed paying any attention to what their dog is doing can do what they want. It's all about give and take and awareness all all sides. If the OP had kicked off just because a friendly dog rocked up and was friendly, well no I don't think that's reasonable. But she called to the owner many times, and the owner should have been able to see that for whatever reason her dog was following the OP and being a bit of a nuisance and then should have come and fetched the dog. And been within distance that the OP could speak to her about it.

Any reasonable person seeing their dog is (for whatever reason) not sure or intimidated by their dog (or person for that matter) should make the effort to get their dog back. It doesn't sound like it was out of control so much as a dog whose owner was too far away, not paying attention and then rude when the OP asked for the dog to be recalled. I don't get this thing of "there is a code everyone knows and stuff you if you don't know it". I don't know this code and every walking place is different in my experience. Which is why owners should have an eye out and be able to respond to situations as they develop. There's no blanket rule that covers all situations. People have to have awareness and pay a bit of attention. Not rocket science.

Both dogs should have been on a lead as neither were under the control of the owners.

I was recently walking where 3 paths converge in a Y. Dog A goes bounding off, out of sight behind a hedge ignoring its shouting owners (who were in no state to give chase) and then there was the most awful noise. When I got through the hedge there was a smaller dog with a yellow lead/ harness warning of "reactive dog" still in a tizzy and the owners muttering obscenities about the off-lead dog. At least they had ensured their dog was under control and a reasonable precaution to owners that happen to be in the vincinity of their dog. Bloody useless against illiterate dogs ignoring their owners though!

There are a lot of dogs around, and too few have the training to be reliable off the lead in busy public spaces and end up being a bloody nuisence to other dogs and users of that space.

You were rude but equally she shouldn't have ignored you for so long.

Put your dogs on a lead if they are a flight risk, surely?

You we’re not in the wrong. I have a reactive dog and the bane of my life is other walkers not keeping an eye on their dogs. Mine is always on a lead due to his fear of other dogs but many let their pooches approach him. Really annoying especially after I ask for them to pop the dog on a lead or call them back as mine is unpredictable. My dog is under my control - theirs is not under their control.
Too many people say ‘my dog is friendly’. Jolly good but mine isn’t always!! 😡

But from what most dog owners have said on here their dogs would NOT have been allowed to approach yours as it’s on lead. I appreciate there are always exceptions to this though
By having your dog off lead it suggests your dog is ok to approach