Page 3 | The shit show began with the useful idiot David Cameron’s fear of the ultra libertarians

bellac11 · 15/10/2022 14:39

Florenz · 15/10/2022 14:33

That's very simplistic and doesn't reflect reality. If being in the EU was so good and the benefits that obvious, it would be very hard if not impossible to manipulate people into voting to leave it. The truth is that the benefits of being in the EU were not shared equally. It was very beneficial for the wealthy and highly educated, not so much for normal working people.

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You couldnt be more wrong and you must have been told this and shown the evidence before this conversation

The EU funded a huge number of projects from roads to social cohesion in poor areas of the UK that the UK government couldnt give a toss about. There are tons of little blue plaques up and down the country,, now rain soaked and probably overgrown citing EU funding for enhancement of deprived areas.

The problem is that people like you couldnt give a toss about those people either by the sounds of it.

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/10/2022 15:01

Florenz · 15/10/2022 14:33

That's very simplistic and doesn't reflect reality. If being in the EU was so good and the benefits that obvious, it would be very hard if not impossible to manipulate people into voting to leave it. The truth is that the benefits of being in the EU were not shared equally. It was very beneficial for the wealthy and highly educated, not so much for normal working people.

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It was very beneficial for many deprived areas, normal working people and the country as a whole. The wealthy and highly educated are still fine. It's the rest of us that are fucked.

Stop blaming everyone else and own your part of fucking up the UK. Learn from it and never again trust anyone who tells you to ignore experts.

Alondra · 15/10/2022 15:04

Florenz · 15/10/2022 14:33

That's very simplistic and doesn't reflect reality. If being in the EU was so good and the benefits that obvious, it would be very hard if not impossible to manipulate people into voting to leave it. The truth is that the benefits of being in the EU were not shared equally. It was very beneficial for the wealthy and highly educated, not so much for normal working people.

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Again and leaving Brexit aside....

Your government decisions don't affect anyone equally. They are hell-bent in benefiting those with more money, while they don't give a shit about working and middle class.

This has nothing to do with the EU, it's Tories policies. And you are paying for it right now.

Florenz · 15/10/2022 18:53

I'm not an ardent Brexiter, I just don't think the idea that the EU was good for everyone and that everyone that voted to leave were "uninformed idiots" is correct at all. It clearly wasn't good for everyone, look at how wages have increased for many people since Brexit, look at how many jobs are available nowadays. Being in the EU was great for employers, and great for highly skilled employees. It provided little to no benefit for normal people with an average or lower education, who then had to hear themselves being criticised by employers and the elite of society as being "not as hard working as the immigrants". How one earth was that not going to lead to resentment and a vote to leave the EU when there finally was a chance to do so?

Blossomtoes · 15/10/2022 18:55

Endlesssummer2022 · 15/10/2022 06:50

Great article below. Our issues today are a direct result of the Brexit vote. In June 2016 the UK approached the fork in the road and chose to walk down fantasy lane. We cannot damage trade with our closest neighbours and expect to become richer. True sovereignty does not exist as economies are inter-dependent.

Whoever replaces Liz, needs to improve our relationship with the EU. We need realists, grownups and experts back in charge. We also need to be humble and realise we’re not special.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/14/markets-take-back-control-brexit-humiliation-britain-suez

Totally agree. I read that article yesterday and it’s spot on.

MissyB1 · 15/10/2022 19:00

I’ve been saying for years that Cameron should be in the Tower of London for treason! He deliberately fucked the UK!

And please can I have an escape goat? I want to get out out of here 🙁

BalmyBalmes · 15/10/2022 19:07

@Florenz if people were not "uninformed idiots" do you mean they were happy to contribute to risk breaking up of the UK in order to get Brexit?
They were warned it could well lead to Scottish independence and the breakdown of Northern Ireland peace process. If people were well informed were they prepared to throw a centuries old union under the Brexit bus?

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/10/2022 19:08

Florenz · 15/10/2022 18:53

I'm not an ardent Brexiter, I just don't think the idea that the EU was good for everyone and that everyone that voted to leave were "uninformed idiots" is correct at all. It clearly wasn't good for everyone, look at how wages have increased for many people since Brexit, look at how many jobs are available nowadays. Being in the EU was great for employers, and great for highly skilled employees. It provided little to no benefit for normal people with an average or lower education, who then had to hear themselves being criticised by employers and the elite of society as being "not as hard working as the immigrants". How one earth was that not going to lead to resentment and a vote to leave the EU when there finally was a chance to do so?

Unskilled immigration hasn't stopped. The Conservatives are planning to up the numbers of seasonal immigrant numbers by 44,000. The only difference is most of the new immigrants will be from outside the EU. This massively benefits the employers and elite of society because now they don't have to follow EU laws on workers rights.

Here's our Tory Health Minister demonstrating the very attitude you've described. nursingnotes.co.uk/news/nurses-can-leave-if-they-want-to-they-have-already-had-a-pay-rise-says-therese-coffey/

Kendodd · 15/10/2022 19:20

Florenz · 15/10/2022 18:53

I'm not an ardent Brexiter, I just don't think the idea that the EU was good for everyone and that everyone that voted to leave were "uninformed idiots" is correct at all. It clearly wasn't good for everyone, look at how wages have increased for many people since Brexit, look at how many jobs are available nowadays. Being in the EU was great for employers, and great for highly skilled employees. It provided little to no benefit for normal people with an average or lower education, who then had to hear themselves being criticised by employers and the elite of society as being "not as hard working as the immigrants". How one earth was that not going to lead to resentment and a vote to leave the EU when there finally was a chance to do so?

Stop trying to blame poor people for Brexit. Brexit was voted for by loads of very well off home counties pensioners. They just don't fit the hard done by narrative though do they.

hadtochangetothisone · 15/10/2022 19:26

FiveMins · 15/10/2022 08:53

Cameron agreed to Brexit to save his own skin.
Johnson won his majority on a Brexit mandate, he campaigned for Brexit because he made a calculated decision that it would make him more popular.
Austerity was popular with the Tories ideology and neatly hurts the "undeserving" poor the most.
Sadly people are deliberately misled by so much of the media who have an agenda laid out by the richest in society.

I am v late to the party... but this poster speaks the truth !

YetAnotherNameChange52 · 15/10/2022 19:36

ClaudineClare · 15/10/2022 11:27

Wales does not have a Tory majority. Out of 40 Westminster seats, the Tories have 14 . In the Senedd they have 16 seats out of 60. Please don't lump us in with England.

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I live in London, where we've got 46 Labour MPs and only 20 Tory ones, so no Tory majority here either. It's the same for other big cities (Liverpool, Birmingham etc) - it's those other buggers who keep voting them into power!😤